Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
martynr said:
Well, they wanted the tanks so they will get them. Unfortunately, they are not running on thin air and a supply line neeeds to be established and that is more than bringing a tank to a front line. Hopefully, other come earlier than that.
Imho, there should be more heavy arms, but they don't want to escalate as dear Olaf says.... Rashka money paid for some years and probably still are it can be noted.
Click to expand...
There is another options Abrams are in Poland so this could be done other ways but i dont think US or Poland was thinking that.
 
Last edited:

bingham67 said:

Not good enough :(
Click to expand...
Supplying more of the basics should be a first priority, not small numbers of fancy toys.
11 months in and the ramp up of shells/mortar seems to be non existent. A few days ago the head of Rheinmetall said they are capable of increasing the production of 155mm shells from 70k to 500k - why haven't they been asked to do this?
Have additional line of production of m777 been added? If not, why not?

No doubt in a few weeks when waves of Russians will be overrunning Ukraine positions we will hear that production of mortar rounds...
 
Sankari said:
That's a hell of a time to wait. Thankfully the Leopards will arrive much sooner.
Click to expand...
Main reason Brams not being sent really, they take more to look after and drink the fuel, US prob where more or less saying " Why do you even want these tanks there to make things more difficult.
Bradleys are going to be more key in making a real difference on the ground anyways.
 
Last edited:
Didn't the Germans say they wouldn't send tanks unless America sent some of their own? So, the Americans say they will send some tanks, and of course the Germans agree to send some of theirs.
The Leopards will go, but I'd be surprised if Abrams ever do...
 
Uther said:
Didn't the Germans say they wouldn't send tanks unless America sent some of their own? So, the Americans say they will send some tanks, and of course the Germans agree to send some of theirs.
The Leopards will go, but I'd be surprised if Abrams ever do...
Click to expand...
Good point or maybe US waiting for outcome with Leopards first.
 
bris said:
I understand they can ramp up production but in reality can they?

Do they have the materials, they are relying on Iran right now for drones (or were ), apparently North Korea is suppling train loads every day and no doubt China has a back door and possibly even India is sneaking arms to them.

But their own production lines are they really working, its all good having the lines to produce but getting what they need to produce the quantity they need.

I know they have a missile capability just now but they are not firing near as many as they were.

Iran is probably out of the picture for now so they will lose the drones for a while at least, and will Iran even try and produce more knowing whats going to happen?

Personally I think their shipments are going to get much smaller for the time being at least.
Click to expand...

There isn't really a short/simple answer to that - some stuff is more feasible than others or can be done to different time scales. Like with the supplies of basic military gear to the mobilised - some equipment is plentiful other stuff almost non-existent with limited ability to procure it or production of it.

They also seem to have a habit of mobilising key workers from some industries they would need at a later date to get industry up and running to military needs.
 
Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Quoted by RIA:
- With U.S. Supplying Tanks to Ukraine, There Is No Sense to Talk to Kyiv or Its ‘Puppet Masters’
- Russia and U.S. to Continue Talks on Prisoner Exchange, but Such an Issue “Likes Silence”
- There Are Unlikely to Be Realistic Options for an All-For-All Prisoner Exchange With U.S.
- Russia Remains Committed to START Treaty, Respects All Limitations and Continues to Exchange Information
- U.S. Balancing on the Verge of a Direct Confrontation With Russia Due to Actions Aimed at Resolving the “Russian Question”
- Negotiations on Creating Safety Zone Around Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Plant Are Tough, Looks Like Kyiv Just Stalling for Time
- Russia Is Hoping Tactics of Small Steps Will Allow to Find Mutually Acceptable Solutions on Major Bilateral Issues With U.S.
- Lack of Any U.S.-Russia Treaty on Weapons Control After Current START Treaty Expires Is Quite a Possible Scenario

*Senior Chinese Diplomat Wang Yi to Visit Moscow in February - Vedomosti Daily Cites Two Sources
*Iran Summons Ukraine’s Senior Diplomat in Tehran Over His Country’s Official’s Comments on Isfahan Drone Attack -Tasnim

Russian Foreign Ministry:
- It Strongly Condemns “Provocative” Drone Attack on Defence Facility in Iran
- Such Attacks May Trigger Uncontrolled Escalation

Kremlin
- Condemns Attack on Iranian Defence Factory
- NATO Countries Are Becoming Increasingly Involved in the Conflict
- Western Arms Supplies to Ukraine Will Not Change Course of Events
- More Western Weapon Supplies to Ukraine Will Only Lead to Further Escalation
- It Is a Lie, What Johnson Said Is Not True
- Denies That Putin Threatened Missile Strike on Britain in Call With Boris Johnson
- Putin Holds Phone Call With Saudi Crown Prince
- Putin and Saudi Crown Prince Discuss Cooperation Within OPEC+ Group to Maintain Price Stability

*German Defence Minister: Considering Earlier Pullout of Troops From Mali -Newspaper Report
*NATO’s Stoltenberg: Urges S.Korea to Step Up Military Support To Ukraine
*French Defense Minister Lecornu: Australia and France Have Agreed to Cooperate to Manufacture Shells for Ukraine

Ukraine’s President:
- Visits Southern Region of Mykolaiv, Discusses Situation There
- He Visited Hospital in City of Mykolaiv With Danish PM
 
It's worth remembering that the whole point of the US sending a company of Abrams was to break the deadlock on Germany dithering on allowing the export of Leopards. Given all the weapons the US has supplied to date it's only fair that other NATO partners pick up the slack on MBT's which will have a lot of heavy lifting and fighting to do. It's also L2's chance to show us what it can do, Challenger and Abrams are all properly battle tested and successful the same can't be said the Leopard which so far has yet to shine in anything other then friendly tank tournaments.
 
I would always take stuff with a pinch of salt
I would put just as much chance of seeing an Abrams in Ukraine in March as not in 2023, they need to keep Putin guessing and maybe giving him a false sense of time suits the allies* agenda.

* is it fair to call the civilised Ukraine supporting world the allies now?
 
I wonder if the intent is to ever actually send the Abrams to Ukraine, and for the Ukrainian Army to operate them in combat? By pushing the delivery of these back, it could potentially create a scenario where Poland for instance, offers to send Ukraine another 31 Leopard 2’s in the near term, and these M1’s are then delivered to Poland instead (who already operate Abrams), and the prospect of ever sending them to Ukraine was just a ruse to get Germany to move on Leopards.
 
The Funktopus said:
I wonder if the intent is to ever actually send the Abrams to Ukraine, and for the Ukrainian Army to operate them in combat? By pushing the delivery of these back, it could potentially create a scenario where Poland for instance, offers to send Ukraine another 31 Leopard 2’s in the near term, and these M1’s are then delivered to Poland instead (who already operate Abrams), and the prospect of ever sending them to Ukraine was just a ruse to get Germany to move on Leopards.
Click to expand...
I'd think they would still want Ukraine to consider Abrams in the future so probably will actually get them at some point.
 
Even with these tanks I worry it’ll take too long. Throw in training and logistics to operate them and they’ll be lucky to have them in operation ready for when the ground will support them. F16s will take considerably longer. This all should have started last year.

Zelensky is sounding increasingly desperate and it looks like there is nothing in the east to save. What does victory look like? A country that’ll be decimated. Sure, we’ll rebuild it, but you can’t replace the people lost or accommodate the numerous who’ll be physically and emotionally damaged. Putin has one goal, leave Ukraine as an unviable country to nato that’ll act as a buffer if not Russian territory.

I hope to see huge gains in the spring from Ukraine as we saw in the autumn, but again that genuinely did seem to be a tactical retreat to cause pain elsewhere. We’re being reactive in sending equipment whereas we need to be proactive.
 
Last edited:
I also fear for the Ukrainians, the West has been far to slow to ramp up.

Unless more kit goes into Ukraine, I reckon they are going to have to capitulate and agree to Russia having the Donbass/Crimea. Then set up defences against any further Russian agression along a new border.
 
Last edited:
Bazzards said:
I also fear for the Ukrainians, the West has been far to slow to ramp up.

Unless more kit goes into Ukraine, I reckon they are going to have to capitulate and agree to Russia having the Donbass/Crimea. Then set up defences against any further Russian agression along a new border.
Click to expand...
I think it's been apparent for a while that the end game of this conflict was always going to be a new iron curtain across Ukraine.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Even with these tanks I worry it’ll take too long. Throw in training and logistics to operate them and they’ll be lucky to have them in operation ready for when the ground will support them. F16s will take considerably longer. This all should have started last year.

Zelensky is sounding increasingly desperate and it looks like there is nothing in the east to save. What does victory look like? A country that’ll be decimated. Sure, we’ll rebuild it, but you can’t replace the people lost or accommodate the numerous who’ll be physically and emotionally damaged. Putin has one goal, leave Ukraine as an unviable country to nato that’ll act as a buffer if not Russian territory.

I hope to see huge gains in the spring from Ukraine as we saw in the autumn, but again that genuinely did seem to be a tactical retreat to cause pain elsewhere. We’re being reactive in sending equipment whereas we need to be proactive.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the sheer size of Ukraine. The main bits are still going about daily life...
 
The Funktopus said:
I wonder if the intent is to ever actually send the Abrams to Ukraine, and for the Ukrainian Army to operate them in combat? By pushing the delivery of these back, it could potentially create a scenario where Poland for instance, offers to send Ukraine another 31 Leopard 2’s in the near term, and these M1’s are then delivered to Poland instead (who already operate Abrams), and the prospect of ever sending them to Ukraine was just a ruse to get Germany to move on Leopards.
Click to expand...
I said this to my boss earlier today. Not necessarily as a ruse but just a way to swap out some stock with other allies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom