Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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CaptainRAVE said:
We’re being reactive in sending equipment whereas we need to be proactive.
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Exactly this however not sure Russia can sustain the momentum they are on right now although it seems that way something got to give.

should have been sending tanks etc from the start go all in to end it or not at all not beating around the bush hasnt done Ukraine any favours and costing lives.
 
It didn't seem to take long to get Abrams into Iraq - albeit with already trained crews. The bottleneck (if anything) should be training not the movement of the hardware.
 
Before we call it quits let's not forget that Russia is losing a lot of troops constantly, and they have only made some small recent gains.

When Ukraine was re-taking land I'm sure we all thought it would keep going that way, but I wouldn't discount Ukraine yet.

They need the better tanks, the Bradleys, and probably some nicer long range missiles for the HIMARS would make a big difference.
 
As an aside, had a fantastic chat with a retired Tankie from early 80`s RTR - he was on the team to test TOGS before it was deployed ; fitment testing on a chieftain involved hot glue gun and a can of compressed air! worked well, but, not as good as the USA system on the M60.

However, the government got involved, and the final system on CR1 and Chieftain mk 11 , was ridiculously cut down - the optics were Barr & Stroud IR18 , supposed to be the drivers `eyes` on the MBT80, not suitable as a gun sight at all! Apparantly once Jordan got the CR`s they actually upgraded the TOGS and main sights to what the Uk should have had all along....
 
HungryHippos said:
Before we call it quits let's not forget that Russia is losing a lot of troops constantly, and they have only made some small recent gains.

When Ukraine was re-taking land I'm sure we all thought it would keep going that way, but I wouldn't discount Ukraine yet.

They need the better tanks, the Bradleys, and probably some nicer long range missiles for the HIMARS would make a big difference.
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Need some mobile air defence as well - while Ukraine gaining dominance of the skies would be ideal being able to deny Russia effective use of the sky would suffice.
 
Rroff said:
Need some mobile air defence as well - while Ukraine gaining dominance of the skies would be ideal being able to deny Russia effective use of the sky would suffice.
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War feels like Airforce isn't as important for either side, people calling for F-16's, but in reality they're expensive, hard to use, and both sides have AA that likes friendly fire.

Solid heavy artillery and ground forces seem more important here.
 
HungryHippos said:
War feels like Airforce isn't as important for either side, people calling for F-16's, but in reality they're expensive, hard to use, and both sides have AA that likes friendly fire.

Solid heavy artillery and ground forces seem more important here.
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Every conflict is different. Sadly Air capability is very much a factor here. Russian long range stand off air to ground capability is a huge factor. They can launch cruise missiles with impunity from well within Russian territory and still have a serious impact.
Dont see how F16's could have much impact here though, as the launch range of russian missiles is huge. Well beyond that of any munition that the F16 could equip.

The more capable the Ukrainian airforce becomes the further away Russia will stage/launch missiles.
 
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steve45 said:
Every conflict is different. Sadly Air capability is very much a factor here. Russian long range stand off air to ground capability is a huge factor. They can launch cruise missiles with impunity from well within Russian territory and still have a serious impact.
Dont see how F16's could have much impact here though, as the launch range of russian missiles is huge. Well beyond that of any munition that the F16 could equip.

The more capable the Ukrainian airforce becomes the further away Russia will stage/launch missiles.
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Yes but the less capable the airfields they'd be forced to use and they've gagged on centralisation so hard that the further out they go the worse state the airfield is going to be in, Engels is probably about as good as it gets for them.
 
steve45 said:
Dont see how F16's could have much impact here though, as the launch range of russian missiles is huge. Well beyond that of any munition that the F16 could equip.
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I think the F-16 is being talked about as it's cheap so countries are more likely to donate/buy them for Ukraine, ideally they would be better off with F-15s. The F-16 is a very capable dogfighter, but so are the upgraded MiG-29s Ukraine already have, Ukraine's major disadvantage in the air at the moment is in the BVR dept. Their MiG-29s get outranged by Russia's Su-35s, and while Ukraine's Su-27s have better range Russia's MiG-31s can outrange them with ease.

It's been mentioned before but the is a certain comedy to the fact that Russia have sent their upgraded/modernised/new Su-30/34/35 and MiG-35 jets to Ukraine to change the game and maybe even drum up some export sales, and the show is being stolen by an upgraded variant of a Soviet interceptor that ceased production in 1994 ^^
 
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F16s would be most effective if they are fitted with the latest long range weapons. If they are just given similar to what Ukraine's jets already have then they would need to be supplied in good quantities to be effective. So it's a fit of a conundrum, send them a couple hundred F16s with mediocre weapons or a couple dozen with the latest long range weapons - and both of these options are currently something the west doesn't want to do
 
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One of France's conditions for sending F16's apparently is that they don't go on Russian soil.
The idea still seems to be give Ukraine just enough to keep this going long term and bleed the Russians, but not enough for Ukraine to win any time soon. Imo.
 

Ukrainian Army soldier, (26-year-old) Artem – was killed in battle in Soledar. His mother says his brother-in-arms carried him in a sleeping bag for (6 km), trying to save his life. He had recently returned to Ukraine from working in the Czech Republic and the UK. His brother is wounded.​

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Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Sad seeing this guys photos and a life that could have been.
 
Uther said:
One of France's conditions for sending F16's apparently is that they don't go on Russian soil.
The idea still seems to be give Ukraine just enough to keep this going long term and bleed the Russians, but not enough for Ukraine to win any time soon. Imo.
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Pretty sure France never flew F16s.

Nate
 
Nate--IRL-- said:
Pretty sure France never flew F16s.

Nate
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I'm sure your right. France said 'warplanes' and I just assumed lol
Sky news:
'Asked at a news conference if France is considering sending warplanes, Mr Macron said "nothing is excluded" as long as certain conditions are met.

He set out some of those conditions, such as:

  • The equipment would not lead to an escalation of tensions
  • The jets would not be used "to touch Russian soil"
  • Sending the warplanes wouldn't "weaken the capacities of the French army".
Mr Macron also said Ukraine would have to formally request the planes.'

He noted that he will meet visiting Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov in Paris tomorrow.
 
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Uther said:
I'm sure your right. France said 'warplanes' and I just assumed lol
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I believe the jets currently in discussion (aside from MiG-29s gifted from countries that still operate them) for sale to Ukraine are F-16s, Swedish Gripens and French Rafales.

Pity the Eurofighter came in so over budget, guess BAE won't be making anything on the deals xD
 
ubersonic said:
I believe the jets currently in discussion (aside from MiG-29s gifted from countries that still operate them) for sale to Ukraine are F-16s, Swedish Gripens and French Rafales.

Pity the Eurofighter came in so over budget, guess BAE won't be making anything on the deals xD
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Gripen would be a better fit for Ukraine with its ability to operate from makeshift runways and facilities, etc.
 
Uther said:
One of France's conditions for sending F16's apparently is that they don't go on Russian soil.
The idea still seems to be give Ukraine just enough to keep this going long term and bleed the Russians, but not enough for Ukraine to win any time soon. Imo.
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Yeah seems that way. Either the war ends up in a stalemate after another year or two or if Ukraine ever wins its years away. The idea being that a long war, regardless of the outcome, is better for the West because the longer it goes on for, the weaker Russia will be at the end of it and the West will have more time where they don't have to worry about Russia.

Russia has already lost enough tanks and vehicles that at pre war production levels it will take at least 20 years to replace them and no doubt the US likes that.

The US also gets to push its strategic goals this way. Europe doesn't have the will or volume of weapons needed for Ukraine to beat Russia, so the U.S. is required to chip in and that makes them the playmaker and they get to assert their will which appears to be to make Russia weaker as well as cut European trade with Russia
 
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