Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked.../275916/The-Nazi-occupation-of-Soviet-Ukraine


ubersonic said:
The ones being referred to are in memoquite in Soviet (AKA Ukranian, Russian, etc) soldiers who died fighting the Nazi's to liberate the Ukraine.
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Not sure the Ukrainians enjoyed being liberated by the russians quite like you think...

sure they helped defeat the Nazi's but then they reigned in a similar way, as they had done prior to ww2 when Ukraine was also under soviet control..
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Russia lost many big wars, including the Crimean War.
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Just read up the negotiated end and concede the loss of the ability to harass Turkey by sea got Turkey a 20 respite because the black sea was deemed neutral but Moldova got free and Russia got the Crimea and Christians got the right to be Christian so no side was too aggrieved.
 
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The Running Man said:
sure they helped defeat the Nazi's but then they reigned in a similar way, as they had done prior to ww2 when Ukraine was also under soviet control..
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Ukraine being part of the USSR was no where near as bad as when it was occupied by the third Reich, you see it wasn't some useless mistreated satellite like a lot of SSR's were as it was considered a holiday destination and had much industry and money pumped into it, the Antonov aircraft company is still based there and it was Ukraine that developed the R-36 ICBM.

Many eastern/southern Ukranians still consider themselves Soviets hence why Russia has more support in those areas than the new Ukranian government, in the words of one Ukranian: "I crossed two oceans and four seas with the Russian navy, and now I have fascists telling me what to do?"


The Running Man said:
Made by the invading soviet force. .not the Ukraine people..
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Made by both actually, the reason the was no attempt to remove them by previous Ukranian governments before the current pro-EU lot is because a large amount of people like them and it would be a shocking show of disrespect to their own people. Imagine if our government decided to remove the Cenotaph.
 
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Chris Wilson said:
At least it takes some attention from the dump called South Africa getting apoplectic over Pistorious, and the bad dress sense, bad taste, and egomania of the Academy Awards.
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The 33 commuters butchered by muslims in China has also been ignored,
But then everyone was very careful to call them "separatists" and not muslim, despite their grievence being to do with their religion.

It's odd that that guardian is often the first news source to give the full story, noticed this a few times now. The BBC flat out refuses to cover these truthfully until the rest of the world has been discussing it for a week.
 
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ubersonic said:
Originally Posted by John Kerry
“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” US Secretary of State John Kerry said. “It’s really 19th century behaviour in the 21st century.”


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously I think I just ruptured something laughing XD
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yeah thats pretty funny.
the problem is that the US/UK are hardly in a position to criticise russia, and if the positions were reversed you know the exact same thing would be happening.
 
bitslice said:
The 33 commuters butchered by muslims in China has also been ignored,
But then everyone was very careful to call them "separatists" and not muslim, despite their grievence being to do with their religion.

It's odd that that guardian is often the first news source to give the full story, noticed this a few times now. The BBC flat out refuses to cover these truthfully until the rest of the world has been discussing it for a week.
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Actually I thought the BBC covered it fairly well, considering how limited the facts were and how hard it is to get journalists into China. Serparatists describes them fairly accurately too, as Jinjiang provience is one of Chinas controversial territories. The coverage of the bomb blasts in nigeria was woefully short though.
 
Westyfield2 said:
Saw this online http://t.co/Pru5oRKaja that reckons we'll be OK without Russian Gas...
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Not only that, but I read a report this morning that said Europe has 4 years worth of gas held in storage prompted by the last time Russia turned off the taps. Might be overstating the case a little bit, but just goes to show that Putin doesn't have us over the barrel his fanbois in this forum think he does.
 
bitslice said:
The shoppers butchered by muslims in China has also been ignored,
But then everyone was very careful to call them "separatists" and not muslim, despite their grievence being to do with their religion.

It's odd that that guardian is often the first news source to give the full story, noticed this a few times now. The BBC flat out refuses to cover these truthfully until the rest of the world has been discussing it for a week.
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Look, we get it, you hate Muslims.

Stop polluting threads with your drivel, the discussion here is Ukraine.

Many eastern/southern Ukranians still consider themselves Soviets hence why Russia has more support in those areas than the new Ukranian government, in the words of one Ukranian: "I crossed two oceans and four seas with the Russian navy, and now I have fascists telling me what to do?"
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Many Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians consider themselves Russian. Russian monuments were destroyed and laws that targeted the Russian language were passed in those countries. Yet Putin didn't consider those Russians in danger and he did not order any invasions, why do you think that is?

The Ukrainian uprising was the perfect excuse for him to take what he considered rightfully his - Crimea. He won't touch any other part of Ukraine, he's not interested in it and the problems such an act would bring. The Russian dimplomats have already started changing their tone now that Crimea is secured and, unless the Ukrainians do something stupid (unlikely), the situation won't escalate.

Wake up.
 
Judgeneo said:
Actually I thought the BBC covered it fairly well
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What they do is update their story as they go along, they were pretty much the last to name names, because I kept going back to see if they had finally admitted it yet. Even just by going on the style of the attack you can make a few guesses on who is involved.
The issue is one of religious repression, not a typical separatist agenda.

I'd be interested in how China handles this, disruption of social order is their number one taboo.

Zethor said:
Look, we get it, you hate Muslims,
Stop polluting threads with your drivel, the discussion here is Ukraine.
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I don't hate Muslims, stop spewing your nonsense and shouting down other people.
Besides, 2 million Muslims in the Ukraine, it's an issue at some point.

How news outlets cover stories is very relevant to this case too, Putin the big bad wolf vs the heroic freedom fighters of the Ukraine. Syrian people vs Assad. Such a lot of BS.

Same poo, different day.

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Zethor said:
Many Latvians, Estonians and Lithuanians consider themselves Russian. Russian monuments were destroyed and laws that targeted the Russian language were passed in those countries. Yet Putin didn't consider those Russians in danger and he did not order any invasions, why do you think that is?
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Because those situations were different. Crimea is basically part of Russia that was put under the authority of the Ukranian government during the USSR and never given back after the USSR fell. It's population is mostly Russian, speaks Russian, and want's to reunify with Russia.

The wouldn't even be any need for Russia to get involved had the new Ukrainian government not denounced Crimea's authority to hold an independence referendum (which is it's legally protected right as a sovereign autonomous state) effectively declaring it's intention to regain control of the breakaway state by force.
 
With all the geo-political fallout of this crisis rightly prominent in the news right now, we shouldn't forget that there are millions of personal tragedies happening in Ukraine right now. This morning on Radio 4 they had an interview with the wife of a Ukrainian soldier who is effectively under siege in his own base. Absolutely heart-breaking to hear her concern.

What is going to happen to Ukrainian soldiers in Crimea? They clearly don't want to surrender but if they do, is Putin going to just let them march back to Ukraine or will he just deem them nazi war criminals and send them to a Siberian gulag? If they don't surrender then what? Russia won't tolerate a foreign presence of what it deems its own territory so presumably they'll have to storm the base at some point.
 
bitslice said:
What they do is update their story as they go along, they were pretty much the last to name names, because I kept going back to see if they had finally admitted it yet. Even just by going on the style of the attack you can make a few guesses on who is involved.
The issue is one of religious repression, not a typical separatist agenda.

I'd be interested in how China handles this, disruption of social order is their number one taboo.


I don't hate Muslims *****, stop spewing your nonsense and shouting down other people.
Besides, 2 million Muslims in the Ukraine, it's an issue at some point.

How news outlets cover stories is very relevant to this case too, Putin the big bad wolf. Vs the heroic freedom fighters of the Ukraine. Syrian people Vs Assad.

Same poo, different day.
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Its not the first time this has happened, and Jinjiang isn't "really" about religion. China tolerates religion very well, including Islam. In fact, their biggest ally is Pakistan, who happens to wholly support Chinas stance on Jinjiang.

But we're going rather off topic now.
 
ubersonic said:
The wouldn't even be any need for Russia to get involved had the new Ukrainian government not denounced Crimea's authority to hold an independence referendum (which is it's legally protected right as a sovereign autonomous state) effectively declaring it's intention to regain control of the breakaway state by force.
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I've highlighted that last part because you made it up. The Ukrainian Govt. issued no such threats.
 
As an interesting aside when Pakistan had those immense floods a few years ago within days China had more than 100000 armed forces in Pakistan helping them mitigate the disaster, at that point I realised how close China was to the ME and how unlikely the US was gona win in Afghanistan.
 
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