Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Soldato
You dont understand what you are talking about do you? CR3 will be built/upgraded in the UK in the RBSL plant in Telford, various other parts and sub-systems have been contracted out to other British companies too. Granted not every single component will be made in the UK. Part of the reason why British military procurement ends up costing so much is the insistence on UK manufacturing, often this requires production lines to be spun up specifically for this cause.
I don't believe so - we've given them Starstreak and Martlet launchers though.
EDIT: Oops misread that as Sky Sabre somehow - anything on Storm Shadow seems to be being kept under wraps.
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Soldato
There was talk of the SCALP being sent earlier in the conflict, I beleive it even made it on the one of the many confirmed lists of things being sent. However I'm not sure if it ever was actually sent.
There has also been more recent talk/speculation of UK possibly supplying Storm Shadow, but no confirmation of any actual decision to provide it.
Though there are complications none the less potentially adding layers to logistics and some might not be really feasible IMO we should transition the C2 fleet to an easier/cheaper to maintain version, even if that comes with some downgrades, and build a new MBT from scratch (though sadly would likely get mired down in bureaucracy, scope creep and corruption).
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Soldato
What the long range stuff we are going to send as there was talks yesterday?
Soldato
It would be silly and short sighted to change the current plan for CR3 with it being so far down the road. Lets get that one across the line and look at future capability.
When you consider that AJAX (SCOUT SV) originates from FRES project, it has taken 20+ years effectively to see that come to fruition, and its yet to produce an operational capability...
Any going back to the drawing board will just land us with a huge capability gap and a lot of questions to be answered. Military procurement is not a short process. It definitely needs to be streamlined. The current process is a joke.
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Soldato
We should be independent for things like Tanks IMO. Closing down all our manufacturing is gonna bite us in the ass.
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Soldato
I hope so. He has defence contracts and shouldn't be hurting US allies.
I'm sometimes a bit idealistic but we need a proper shake up when it comes to this stuff.
Soldato
Same. I used to defend him on this forum but he has got completely sucked in by this red pill nonsense and seem to spend his time liking posts by nutters like Catturd now
Soldato
He has completely lost me now, I use to be able to separate that nonsense from the value he provided in companies like SpaceX but now his egotistical nonsense is overflowing into things that actually matter.
His ego will be the downfall of everything worthwhile he has built.
Elon is such a joke, the whole red pill nonsense is just asinine, its hard to believe he leaned so hard into all of it.
His ego will be the downfall of everything worthwhile he has built.
Elon is such a joke, the whole red pill nonsense is just asinine, its hard to believe he leaned so hard into all of it.
Soldato
You took the words right out of my mouth. One phone call from the president threatening to cut all funding for Space X is all it will take to get that turned back on.
Associate
OK, Rheinmetall (as RBSL) are doing the upgrades in factories in the UK. However, the L55A1 (Rheinmetall Rh-120) smoothbore gun replacing the Challenger 2's non-NATO compliant L30A1 rifled main gun and the Horstman suspension is German technology. It's not like it is a homegrown MBT using all British technology.
Besides, the upgraded tanks are not going to be ready until at least 2027 and are not guaranteed to be fully operational until 2030! Surely, the USA could supply us with new Abrams M1A2 tanks long before that?
Furthermore, the Defence Select Committee said in a report entitled Obsolescent and outgunned: the British Army's armoured vehicle capability, that 'Despite having spent around 50% of the allocated budget (£800 million), the programme has yet to place a manufacturing contract. The programme has a current in-service date of 2024 (originally planned for 2017) and is some £227 million over budget. After a decade of effort, this abject failure to deliver against both cost, (with an overrun now totalling over a quarter of a billion pounds of public money) and timescale (ISD seven years late) is clearly totally unacceptable.' So it doesn't look like the Challenger 3 project is good value for money anyway.
It might be a sign of our decline as a military power to rely on US MBTs, but at the end-of-the-day, if we have to fight Russia/China with them we are going to be doing it alongside the yanks anyway.
Soldato
By the time we modified it for our own communications equipment (Bowman), modified to meet our requirements, went through trials and acceptance it would push far beyond 2030... and its old tech! Just not worth it! The current timeline ties in nicely with the rest of our fleet capability upgrades.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think we can just buy "off the shelf" there is so much going on behind the scenes that you dont comprehend. Plus, as already stated we should never rely solely on another country to provide a capability. If we could build on license in the UK then not so bad but again you are back to the issue of timescale, we'd be pushing mid 30's to 40's before we had an operational capability. That just dosnt work!
No military procurement ends up being "good value for money" sadly, too many defense companies over promise and under deliver. Our biggest enemy is the greed of the military industry.
I think it’s all a bit peculiar too. At the start he was very pro Ukraine. Even had meetings with Zelensky talking about what his companies can do for them post war and making sure a supply of terminals got in.
Then suddenly the narrative changed to not escalating, parroting the Kremlin lines of nuclear war.
Then goes and buys Twitter and since keeps retweeting stuff the Kremlin would be happy to see spread with just an ‘interesting’ as a comment. Even some stuff that was outright disinformation, which as the owner of the worlds biggest social media provider is not great.
Also seems to be increasingly appealing to the maga crowd with anti woke tweets or commenting ‘alarming’ on immigration posts etc. stuff that he never really commented on before.
All very peculiar…
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