Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Russia has recalled its ambassador to the Ukraine and there are rumours of Russian tanks massing along the border with Ukraine. Now the Olympics are over I fully expect Russia to invade Ukraine soon - as they did Georgia.

LOL at the Putin fanbois here, truly pathetic.

Putin fanbois?? If you are talking about me, I have nothing personal for Putin, I am just talking about him as a Politician, and you cant deny he is a rather good one when it comes to external affairs, maybe bad for us.... But for Russia he is a rather good one, if a person is on other side of barricade it does not make them automatically bad, well if you have enough brain to understand that is

Georgia, please read previous page where I have showed proof that EU commission has concluded that the war broke out due to Georgian troops heavily shelling a civilian city and Russia had full right to take necessary measures to protect their citizens and peace-keepers.

I just wonder what would we do if for example tomorrow Spain shelled Gibraltar nearly wiping whole rock, we would retaliate after that but whole world would be saying that we have invaded Spain....

It is not about fan-boyism, it is about looking at things with a balanced perspective and I found that a lot of media brain-washes people into seeing West as good and East as bad and thats it. Even though things like chemical weapons in Iraq are now discovered to be an absolute lie to topple Saddam...

How am I supposed to not doubt a view that western world is portraying of the situations, when we already done this mess up in Iraq and I am sure there are far more that been done, we just dont know yet.

Basically if a person doubts a source, he becomes a fan-boi lol?

The whole idea is that our "allies" in middle east, not so long ago had issues with protesters... They didnt bother for long there, just shot on sight those who were unhappy... We never offered our support to the protesters, we just ignored it. But as soon as Ukraine comes up, we all over it... So much for Fair "world police" I cant seem to think that the reason why we in it, is that we clearly have some benefit to be had there and not just for the sake of people, because if we were... We would have helped those people in Bahrain... We would have toppled Saudi Arabia due to their Dictatorship and ridiculous discriminating laws against women, but we are not doing this.

Why?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I'm surprised to see quite a few pro-Russian voices around here. Almost every nation that has been 'blessed' with Russia as a neighbour has suffered from it, at various times in history. The bloodiest failed experiement in human history started in Russia (communism).
The fact that they are a governed by a corrupt, totalitarian, soviet nostalgic doesn't help either.

Given these facts, Russian hate shouldn't be a surprise.

Yeah we in UK have great history dont we? Of helping people during our Empire times....

We also have great modern history of bombing countries to middle ages.... In relevantly modern history what good have we done for any countries we intervened into?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

People also seem to forget that there are numerous protests all around EU against EU...

Just one of those countries,

What if Russia backed the protesters and started issuing sanctions and funding them? Cause thats what we did in Ukraine, funny thing is that if you have this point of view, you get labeled "putinist" and asked if you are "Russian" and generally dismissed....

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

New Ukrainian president spells it out. Seems more concerned with the financial situation than the geo-politics of his country's freedom revolution. Let's hope that he's still worrying about the Ukraine's economy first and foremost in 6 months time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26361657

New government will just steal the money and run away

Look what people are in government right now, there are the ones who got ousted last time

There are no new faces in politics in post soviet countries, you just get pro-russian, pro-western but in the end they are all thugs who steal money off people.

I also heard on BBC that the new president will sign the EU deal before the election, may I know... On what grounds can he do such thing?? How is this Democratic?? Half the country doesnt want anything to do with EU.

He hasnt even been elected!

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

EU deal sounds like a good idea.

No it doesnt

Russian deal offers a massive cash injection which EU deal does not.

We cant sort out our own defaulting countries, HOW are we going to save a country stuck in soviet era with 50m population....

Moreover, EU deal will only prove beneficial in very long run... That is if they ever get accepted into EU, which is doubtful...

The government that signs EU deal, will be throw out within a year same way as yanukovich.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Fair play. Maybe sounds like an obvious compromise if the Crimea is ceded back to Russia while Russia re-affirms its commitment to staying out of internal Ukrainian politics and respecting the rest of Ukraine's territorial integrity. However, is president Putin in any mood for reason and compromise?

You seem to be a bit naive about the "staying out of internal affairs" We have been sticking our noses into everyone's business including Ukraine's for long time. We even got to the absurd situations where we made up stuff just to invade (iraq)

I just cant bring myself to have a go at Putin while we are like x100 worse ourselves and seem to portray that we are saints, world police blah blah blah....

Man is clearly no saint, but I always thought if you are no saint yourself you have no right no judge and read morals to other person who is actually not even as bad as you.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

The Russian deal is nothing more than a crude bribe, a temporary fix that would have been embezzled away by the oligarchs and their cronies before any effect made its way to ordinary working Ukrainians. The EU deal offers a chance to grow the Ukrainian economy from the basket case it is now to be a successful, prosperous economy governed by the rule of law. Of course this would be against Putin's interest because once the Ukrainian economy is successful, Russian people might start asking "why can't we be like that?".

In what wonder-land do you live may I ask??? We cant even turn Greece,Spain,Ireland,Portugal,Baltics into prosperous economies how the hell Ukraine is going to turn into one?? They are not even offered membership!

UK is a country with barely any industries left and yet we will probably have referendum soon to leave the EU because it is becoming not financially beneficial anymore.... I just.... facepalm

Then the corruption, corruption has gone nowhere in Greece! It even got worse, since more people want to get hands on the EU money that is being injected.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Compared to Putin we are saints, look what happens to Putin's enemies. We maintain diplomatic relations with almost all countries, which includes robustly stating our position when required. If that's "sticking our nose in" then guilty as charged, what Russia has been up to in the Ukraine is a lot different to that however.

Anyway, this isn't about what we want, it's about what the people of the Ukraine want - and they don't want Putin's Russia.



Sorry, didn't Ireland recently exit the bailout mechanism? You mention all the failing economies, but one of the reasons why they failed is the levels of corruption in those countries - the same feature of the Ukrainian economy that the Ukrainians want to leave behind. If former Soviet countries like Poland and the Czech Republic can turn themselves into economic success stories then I don't see why the Ukraine can't. At least with the EU they'll have a chance, maintaining the status quo or further Putinisation they will have no chance.

Lol Litvienenko, there isnt even any solid proof for one. For two, NATO has secret prisons where you know what goes on you can say Litvinenko died a very nice and peaceful death.

We have toppled whole regimes in our time which refused to co-operate, e.g Libya or for other interesting reasons (not oil ofc) Iraq...

Overall, LOL at you thinking we are saints compared to Putin


Poland and CZ were never part of soviet union , the reason they became so good is that they were new members at the time with cheap work-force compared to western EU, this attracted tonns of investors something that would not happen to Ukraine.

Moreover, you stated yourself... we cant defeat corruption in our Western EU members and you want to deal with a new country that is just rife with corruption? You think it will go away tomorrow or something?

Anyway, you should move to USA, somewhere south.... They like people like you there... Just swap EU ideology to USA one, you`ll live happily here

Nice and narrow-minded, munching on CNN and Fox News

P.S.

Even if Putin was personally behind Letvienenko case, what do you think happens to Security Services defectors?? We had 2 in USA so far, err they are wanted to be put to death....

Nothing un-usual here in all fairness, occupational hazard, I think it is made clear that leaking of information would be treated as treason and result in death when they sign up to this kind of stuff...

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

What about Latvia? Estonia? Lithuania? These former soviet countries are now succesful democracies, most of them growing faster than Western Europe and it's all thanks to foreign investments? You've basically reduced dozens of millions of people to cheap labourers. You should be ashamed for that disgusting insult.

Foreign investments are part of the picture but what lifted those countries out of the ashes of communism was hard work, sacrifice, the fight against corruption, education etc. The same thing can and will happen in the Ukraine.

Read my opening post, the section about Lithuanian nuclear power station and how we handled it.

Will just add 1 more thing....

You say democratic?;

" A 2008 referendum proposed extending the operation of Unit 2 until a new nuclear plant could be completed as a replacement; the referendum gained 1,155,192 votes for the proposal, but ultimately failed to gain the 50% turnout necessary to be passed.[18] President Valdas Adamkus opposed the measure on grounds that continued operation would not respect Lithuania's international commitments.[19]"

Population of Lithuania is about 3 million, with many working in EU so the exact number is much lower and they had nearly 1.2 million voting in favor of this proposal but it was "waived" obviously because of the reason stated and had nothing to do with EU being quite angry if they went ahead....

Reminds me of the Switzerland refferendum on immigration EU said it will place harsh sanction on Switzerland should the Swiss government go ahead with this referendum and if it will result in Switzerland refusing freedom of movement....

So much democracy, too much to handle.

Poland,Baltics,CZ all joined in 2004, at the time they had chance since those are relatively low population countries (minus poland) and you cant deny the fact cheap labour caused foreign investors to start investing so much and causing their economy to go up...

In all fairness, I`ve been to Baltics a lot and I honestly cant say that the people in LT,LV,EE live better than in dictatorship, soviet styled Belarus. I have spent fair time in all of those countries, the only upper hand I found in Baltics is that nearly all who I met either had family or themselves working in EU...

At the time I visited which was around 2009, the cleaner in UK earned around 800 pounds while teacher in LT earned equivalent of 400 pounds, this is monthly. I cant say what about now, but I still dont think teachers in LT earn same or more than cleaners in UK....

You also cant forget that before 2004, EU actually and UK especially didnt have people to fulfill the low end jobs, so the influx of immigrants who agreed to manual labour for cheap hourly wage was welcomed by employers. No need to go all emotional about this, this is a fact.

This is no more the case, Before 2004 there were NONE post soviet or warsaw pact countries within EU.... As I say again, even those countries who joined in 2004 are not in great shape, the ones who joined recently have no chance and Ukraine is just hopeless.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I also will no longer argue Scorza... He seems to have one sided view that of CNN and Fox and never looks beyond or doubts them.... He never challenges the intents of the West and just looks at the East... I will give it to him that Putin is no saint, but as I said numerous times judgement comes from comparison.

You judge Putin on things like Lietvenenko case, which is not proven and as I said previously even if it was... What did you expect would happen to a double agent? Snowden and other Guy face a death penalty in the USA for the committed leak.

Then invasion of Georgia, EU committee concluded that it was the Georgia one who was the aggressor shelling a CIVILIAN CITY to middle ages, Russia acted within international laws.

Moreover, even if this was a full blown invasion like it was portrayed... We still do not have the right to judge Putin... We are responsible for invasion of iraq based on fabricated evidence, to give us an excuse to invade.

We are responsible for total destruction of countries aka Libya and Sirya, we are responsible for supplying weapons to islamist jihadist and also we are resposnible for UPHOLDING totally un-democratic, racist, jihadist countries such as Saudi Arabia. We are also responsible for closing our eyes when protests happen in countries which we support aka Bahrain and Turkey. Where protesters are literally shot on sight with live ammo.

Farewell, Scorza.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Or so you were lead to believe. Or, for that matter, so Russia were lead to believe.

Yeah next time we fly B-2 over Somalia and they dont spot it... It was because they want us to believe they are all weak and all that nuisance

Stakes are too high in Nuclear age... You do everything you can to show you are capable of mutual destruction principle to avoid conflict. Instead of good old strategy in pretending to be weak and then crushing the enemy once they attack....

We just wont get a chance after few thousand warheads fall on our heads 8 minutes after the launch....

it is not in our interest to "pretend" to be weak.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Possibility of **** getting real....

One commenter does suggest however
"
Those are Russian helicopters but then Russia has bases they lease inside the Ukraine. They are only strengthening the personal of their bases which is a wise move and one that any other country would do. Not a big deal. The war machine will blow all of this out of proportions."

What they are doing is perfectly legal, they have a lot of bases in Ukraine.

However, we cant deny that all this is out the sky and has no further implications...

Obviously, Russia is flexing its muscles.... I would imagine they are strengthening their bases to the extent that they could take on whole Ukraine war machine should order come in.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Also, we are not in the 50's now you know! Everybody already knows that in a nuclear conflict mutual destruction is assured. Does anybody even deliver warheads by planes anymore?!?! Because we certainly don't.

Actually I think UK is the only nuclear country which has no nuclear TRIAD or even DUAD or whatever it would be called.... We just rely on our 4 nuclear subs... With only 1 at the time being at sea.

Both Russia and USA, have ICBM silo based, ICBM sub based, and Nuclear weapons airplane based, this is called the nuclear TRIAD.

So yeah... B-2 is a nuclear bomber so is Tu-144... they were not developed in 50`s.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Russia done this before with georgia, a nation backed by nato now. But before backed by the usa using private military contractors. A friend of mine worked with blackwater, (us pmc company) training up georgian forces, not there officially as a us task force, but funded by the bush administration.

If Georgian army was really trained up to NATO standards, then I really worry about capabilities of our army....

Georgians had their bum handed to them by Russians which are regarded as a 3rd world military...

Although I heard that the ones who scared Georgians most were the Chechen battalion, who didnt bother taking anyone alive, but I am not sure about this.

Maybe if Georgia was equipped with NATO tanks,aircrafts etc... Then we would have to be worried, but as far as of 2008 they were using old soviet equipment. So I guess that is probably the reason why they were defeated so easily.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

have they though, or are blaming Crimean citizens with a view to having their own revolution on the new Ukrainian government ?

Putin has given full go ahead, you can say invasion of Ukraine is under-way, although all is happening is that Russian forces will block out and protect Crimea from any Ukranian aggression untill referendum happens.

I doubt there will be any direct conflict between Russian or Ukrainian armies though.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

Just shows again really, Putin got some massive balls and dont care about what the west says... Probably the only politician today to have that status.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

The interim Ukraine government bought this on themselves.

You don't take control of the country and them immediately repeal or start passing laws on use of the Russian language. Especially without making exceptions for an autonomous state almost entirely populated by Russian speakers.

If they were being smart about it, they should have re-assured the Russian majority in Crimea, and Russians elsewhere in the country they would be protected.

They also passed a law to remove all soviet monuments a.k.a Lenin statues.

Kind of stupid in my eyes, they were the ones who provoked this division... I am sure if they took more non-biased stance, things could have worked out differently and the Russians who saw the conflict could have been fueled by this and over-threw Putin in coming years in Russia.

All we got now is that the Russians possibly think that if they try to overthrow Putin, all they will get is a western puppet who will impose nationalistic ideals.

Very silly move for us in the west I believe... If we handled the Situation well, we could`ve saw Putin out of power in next few years... All we did is to concrete him in power.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Rebels? The Ukrainian Parliament consists of rebels? Also, did you not read what I said? Russian flags had nothing to do with it, the decision was made when the Russian army was first mobilised, one or two days after Yanukovych fled.

I think you are Scorzas 2nd account.... You are arent you?

Scorza knows he`s losing grip, no one supports poor guy and his stupid views.

His non-understanding why cyclist are not allowed on the motorway, made me lol so hard.

good old scorza, same old bullshat

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

He asked the constitution for permission to send the military into Ukraine which is different (apparently.) I don't know the laws behind the Russian/Crimea relationship, I doubt anyone here does really, but from what I've heard it's got links to Russia which gives permission for Russian forces to operate on its territory under request by the Crimea leadership which is independent from Ukraine to some degree.

Whether that's true or not, I don't know, if someone genuinely does know I'd be interested to find out (not the usual, oh it's Putin's Russia, they've made it up)

There are Russian bases all over Ukraine, including Crimea... Russian forces are allowed to move tanks around the bases or even move them in from Russia into those bases in Ukraine.

Although, boots on the ground like near buildings... That is taking it too far and is not in the agreement, hence why they wore no insignia.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Lets hope that treaty gets shoved somewhere far and dark.... I personally do not want a nuclear war tomorrow over UKRAINE....

I am not sure if Ukraine would benefit from it either, it will be a wasteland if this to happen....

Do you?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

All in all this is a very worrying situation which has the potential to get out of hand at any moment, World War One was started over a situation less volatile than this - let's hope that we don't have a Third World War on our hands a century after the first began. If the new Ukrainian government decide to try to take back Crimea with force then the situation will become extremely dangerous very quickly - a regional conflict with unknown consequences would almost certainly break out.

As an aside, though, one must (in a way) admire the efficiency of Russia's manoeuvres into Ukraine - they quickly took those airports without incident and seem to be moving thousands of troops around pretty fast. Taking the airports of course gives them the chance to fly in troops and supplies if needs be, and also denying any potential opponents access to the area.

We will not go to war with Russia over Ukraine, fact is... We will never go to war against Russia, because that war would last around 8-10 minutes....