Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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CaptainRAVE said:
And even then it hits meaningless targets and with the delay just gives Ukraine time to repair the infrastructure, so ultimately makes little difference.
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That's one of the things that has struck me about the Russian use of the more expensive/harder to produce "precision" weapons, is how many of them have either gone off target and effectively wasted, or been deliberately wasted at what are really quite minor targets*.
At times it's like they're using plans that were for something else entirely and haven't adjusted for what they're actually doing, or indeed reality.

Things like hitting the electrical infrastructure is a valid tactic if you can hit it hard enough to take it down and it take a long time to repair and bring back up, but it's not such a good tactic if it's being brought back up faster than you can resupply your missiles, or it's robust enough that it's not falling over because it was built with that sort of damage (and worse) in mind, as I suspect was the case for a lot of cold war USSR infrastructure and given Ukraine was rebuilt after WW2 in part to act as a heavily fortified buffer, hence the layout of various cities/major industrial complexes.



*things that are nice to hit if you've got a huge supply, but not exactly A or B rated targets if your supply is in any way constrained (be it low stocks, low production, or simply problems getting it from storage to launcher)..
 
Minstadave said:
Their production lines are likely to be hampered by sanctions at this point.
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Yup.

They might still be "up and running" but likely at a much slower rate than normal (when they should be running faster), and with a higher failure rate as apparently a lot of stuff that was meant to be "vital to the defence of the country" and thus entirely made in Russia was actually reliant on parts that were bought in from outside and relabelled/packaged to hide the fact*, or not hitting the required QC level.
Even if they're still able to source stuff from outside Russia that they need, they're going to be relying on the grey/black market for a lot of it as foreign manufacturers are unlikely to openly be selling it to them, which is always good for actually getting what you ordered, and it being in good condition.


*Some of it is quite basic stuff like precision machined parts that should have been within Russia's ability to make (but cheaper to buy in and keep the change).
 
Quartz said:
'American chips, Russian chips, all made in Taiwan!'
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Yup.

Militarily, it is foolish to have them make western chips instead of in deeper in our own territory IMO.

I also believe that the longer term strategy of China is to make the West so reliant of cheap manufacturing in China etc, that we become easily exposed for simple manufacturing if things get to a large war.

If we were to get into a spat with Russia/China eventually, it might matter since the West isn't fast at bringing tanks and other weapons online
 
Scougar said:
Yup.

Militarily, it is foolish to have them make western chips instead of in deeper in our own territory IMO.

I also believe that the longer term strategy of China is to make the West so reliant of cheap manufacturing in China etc, that we become easily exposed for simple manufacturing if things get to a large war.

If we were to get into a spat with Russia/China eventually, it might matter since the West isn't fast at bringing tanks and other weapons online
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That’s precisely the focus, China plays the long term game supported by the authoritarian control. America through it’s capitalism means it looks for the short term return.
 
We should sort out import tariffs so foreign imports cannot undercut domestic industries. A few days ago on the news they were talking about closing a steel plant in the UK as they cannot compete with Chinese imports. These are industries of strategic national importance that politicians are allowing to close, what happens if we cannot import this cheap steel from China? They should ban politicians going to Oxford and Cambridge if these are the decisions they make over many decades destroying UK manufacturing industry and privatising industry that should never have been privatised.
 
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supafly said:
We should sort out import tariffs so foreign imports cannot undercut domestic industries. A few days ago on the news they were talking about closing a steel plant in the UK as they cannot compete with Chinese imports. These are industries of strategic national importance that politicians are allowing to close, what happens if we cannot import this cheap steel from China? They should ban politicians going to Oxford and Cambridge if these are the decisions they make over many decades destroying UK manufacturing industry and privatising industry that should never have been privatised.
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Bit late for that, would everyone be happy to pay double or triple for goods?

Most UK goods are now made in China, imported back and stamped with 'British brand' labelling on it.

Trump tried to stop this and received a crazy amount of backlash for it.
 
Begbie said:
Bit late for that, would everyone be happy to pay double or triple for goods?

Most UK goods are now made in China, imported back and stamped with 'British brand' labelling on it.

Trump tried to stop this and received a crazy amount of backlash for it.
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Start a trade war with China sounds like a great idea. Plus annoy the WTO while we're at it who said Trump broke rules when he changed steel tariffs.
 
Azza said:
Start a trade war with China sounds like a great idea. Plus annoy the WTO while we're at it who said Trump broke rules when he changed steel tariffs.
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Exactly its nearly impossible to stop cheap importation from China/underdeveloped/devolping countries now without serious consequences.
 
supafly said:
We should sort out import tariffs so foreign imports cannot undercut domestic industries. A few days ago on the news they were talking about closing a steel plant in the UK as they cannot compete with Chinese imports. These are industries of strategic national importance that politicians are allowing to close, what happens if we cannot import this cheap steel from China? They should ban politicians going to Oxford and Cambridge if these are the decisions they make over many decades destroying UK manufacturing industry and privatising industry that should never have been privatised.
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It's not just the products, it's even the shipping!

A lot of people don't know that there is a global mail/shipping system in place that makes developed countries pay higher shipping costs to export their products so that developing countries can get cheaper shipping to export their products into a developed country.

The problem with this system is that it gets abused - most people would consider China to be pretty much developed or as much as they are going to be anyway and yet they still get labeled as developing by this system and that means China can sell its good overseas with nearly free shipping due to western countries subsidising it - and that's why you can buy junk off alibaba and get free or almost free shipping.

As an example; if you are in in USA and go buy some crap from Alibaba it costs Alibaba just 50 cents per kilogram of weight to send that junk direct to your door. That junk still needs to be put on a plane, sent across the world, processed by your local mail system and then delivered and 50 cents is meant to cover the cost of that for your country (USA) - maybe the real cost is $30 and the remaining $29.50 is paid for by your country - that's the subsidy the developed country must pay so the "developing" country can sell more junk
 
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