Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
CaptainRAVE said:
Considering how slow and ineffective NATO members have been in the early stages I’m not sure I’d like to see it tested if one country was attacked and invoked article 5.
Click to expand...
We'll probably get to see it if things carry on as they are and Russia win the war of attrition, going to be an interesting year or 2 if China get involved with supplying military aid
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Considering how slow and ineffective NATO members have been in the early stages I’m not sure I’d like to see it tested if one country was attacked and invoked article 5.
Click to expand...
Most of the EU were burying their hand in the sand (Scholz) or trying to hopelessly negotiate (Macron). If things did go pear shaped, I guess we could rely on the same countries who provided assistance in the early stages.
 
Malevolence said:
We wouldn't have to. If it actually gets to a point where we're going into a war that requires a massed deployment of armour then there's a overwhelming chance that NATO will be involved. NATO tanks will pick up the slack.
Click to expand...
My issue with that is how many countries in NATO actually have modern, working MBTs in any significant number? The focus for a while was putting pressure on Germany to approve the export of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine because there were supposedly plenty of them available in Europe. In reality, it seems what was available on paper and what's actually usable is very different. For example, most of Spain's L2s are apparently broken. It's so bad that countries are looking to give L1s instead.

The USA has plenty of very good MBTs but they aren't a reliable NATO ally. If Trump or a similar right wing Republican gets back into power, they might even withdraw from NATO.

That said, if it were up to me, I'd give Ukraine most of our Challenger 2s anyway, and start the process of buying new tanks to replace them. We could even loan them the C2s under the condition they give any working ones back after the war.
 
Malevolence said:
Building, not buying, new tanks. The British Army should not be reliant on any other country for it's supply of MBTs.
Click to expand...
In an ideal world, I'd agree but the two problems with that is the time it would take if we do give our C2s away and for my other worry, see the shambles that is the Ajax program.

Whereas we could buy decent tanks relatively quickly from USA or Korea for example.
 
CaneyJ said:
I say we offload the lot and start with a clean slate with a new British public owned defence company rather than this joke of a refurb called Challenger 3.
Click to expand...
The big problem, and the reason we have so few tanks now, is that the UK hasn't really needed tanks since Desert Storm (33 years ago). Obviously we have used them since but that's the last time our armed forces actually had need of them. It would be a very brave government who turned around and told the British public that after decades of austerity (and in the middle of a cost of living crisis) they were going to spend billions building a brand new tank that will almost certainly never be needed, they would pretty much be handing the opposition a platform to campaign on.

Russia may not be as rich economically as the UK but they are much more willing to spend money on their military (thankfully as we have seen they spread it too thin into too many pots and most of it gets embezzled) and yet their new MBT has been pretty much a disaster.

One option would be a Eurotank project but the problem is that if the UK/France/Germany/etc all wanted the same abilities out of a tank this would already have happened.
 
Malevolence said:
Building, not buying, new tanks. The British Army should not be reliant on any other country for it's supply of MBTs.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm in favor of distributed and multiple sources for parts/bodies. Single point of failure is doomed to that.

The latest South Korean IFV (kinda like a Bradley) is meant to be exceptional and would be a good pick for a lot of places, BUT, you have to look at the location. South Korea is extremely exposed as a producer of weapons IMO. It could not be relied upon if China/Russia started things with the west. This is the sort of thing I'm concerned with MBT's.
 
Going by the US tank numbers we should have around 330 active tanks but we have half of that and so probably fairly pointless even bothering if we're not going to have enough of them.
 
Jono8 said:
A year?

£2.5k to go and die in a cold field for an old dying maniac with a height complex?

Lol.
Click to expand...
You have to look at the buying power not just the conversion to USD, they're advertising to people not stock traders.

I.E the current exchange rate is 90 roubles to £1, but a days bread for two people in Moscow is ~56 roubles right now and in London it's ~£1, that means that the effective value of the Wagner contract is actually much higher than it appears on a Google currency conversion.

In real terms it's £4.2k a month (plus bonuses) which is actually a very good wage for Russia, hell it would be good here if not for the almost certain death. Which is presumably is why it's so high, they know that if 90% of the staff die the wage bill will balance out nicely and the figures still look very attractive to perspective new employees.
 
ubersonic said:
You have to look at the buying power not just the conversion to USD, they're advertising to people not stock traders.

I.E the current exchange rate is 90 roubles to £1, but a days bread for two people in Moscow is ~56 roubles right now and in London it's ~£1, that means that the effective value of the Wagner contract is actually much higher than it appears on a Google currency conversion.

In real terms it's £4.2k a month (plus bonuses) which is actually a very good wage for Russia, hell it would be good here if not for the almost certain death. Which is presumably is why it's so high, they know that if 90% of the staff die the wage bill will balance out nicely and the figures still look very attractive to perspective new employees.
Click to expand...
They have to actually last a month to collect it…
 
ubersonic said:
In real terms it's £4.2k a month (plus bonuses) which is actually a very good wage for Russia, hell it would be good here if not for the almost certain death. Which is presumably is why it's so high, they know that if 90% of the staff die the wage bill will balance out nicely and the figures still look very attractive to perspective new employees.
Click to expand...
Is it a good wage for a Mercenary though ?

 
ubersonic said:
You have to look at the buying power not just the conversion to USD, they're advertising to people not stock traders.

I.E the current exchange rate is 90 roubles to £1, but a days bread for two people in Moscow is ~56 roubles right now and in London it's ~£1, that means that the effective value of the Wagner contract is actually much higher than it appears on a Google currency conversion.

In real terms it's £4.2k a month (plus bonuses) which is actually a very good wage for Russia, hell it would be good here if not for the almost certain death. Which is presumably is why it's so high, they know that if 90% of the staff die the wage bill will balance out nicely and the figures still look very attractive to perspective new employees.
Click to expand...
so if you die do you still get paid?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom