Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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dLockers said:
Yeah I'd say this is the truth... no one uses a fighter jet as a battering ram, shirley?
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Especially not when your target has half the value of your fighter jet and your country is struggling to build fighter jets due to sanctions.

I'm in the pilot messed up camp rather than the pilot intentionally hit it camp, though in fairness what he was attempting to do was extremely difficult given the different in their stall speeds/etc.
 
dave28 said:
This could spiral out of control now with NATO supplied jets VS Russian jets.
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No it won't, there's no jet vs jet combat, and air to ground missions are very limited because of all the air defence that's active from both sides, pilots are an expensive commodity as well that you really don't want to lose, so both sides are quite cautious in what they do with regards to airframes
 
Firestar_3x said:
I wonder if Russia assumed they could get away with it, did they think the drone had no alternative live video feeds and capability is like the rubbish they have i.e. DSLR with image retrieval once landed.
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Not so sure they were actually trying to down it, just soak it in fuel and annoy the operators so much they went home.

Obviously they were much more cavalier with their actions due to it being unmanned, which does set a worrying precedent, as a manned recon craft would have turned away long before then. Historically it's normal for interceptors to do dodgy manoeuvres to ward off planes near/in their airspace (and this is by no means a Russian only thing, the US/UK do it to them too we just don't hear about it as much) but the introduction of drones poses serious risks, obviously drone operators will be less likely to break course as they are in zero danger, and interceptors will be more inclined to take risks with them as they're unmanned. So what happens when it's NATO drones intercepting Russian/Chinese recon drones, or vice versa, are operators just going to be playing chicken? lol.
 
bingham67 said:
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Actual leaked transcript of the Kremlin getting the news:

Medvedev: OH **** THEY GOT WHEELED TANKS!!!
Putin: What?
Medvedev: They got French wheeled tanks! These things are OP as ****! They can just drive round our tanks blasting and our turrets can't traverse fast enough to hit them! Even if we buy them all Vstabs!
Putin: Have you been playing World of Tanks again?
Medvedev: It's for research, if I didn't play I wouldn't have figured out my plan to defeat an influx of German tanks using superior T-62s!
Putin: This is why most of our tank facilities are wasting time refurbishing T-62s?
Medvedev: The ones not refurbing the KV-2s yes.
 
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dave28 said:
Poland giving 4 MIG-29`s to Ukraine and others to follow after servicing them. Or so say Sky.

This could spiral out of control now with NATO supplied jets VS Russian jets.
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For there to be air to air combat both sides would have to think it was a good idea to be in the same airspace at the same time.

Russia can't do air superiority with the ground crawling with MANPADS and Ukraine will never have planes to risk. Russia has its own anti air but not much for them to shoot.
 
dave28 said:
Poland giving 4 MIG-29`s to Ukraine and others to follow after servicing them. Or so say Sky.
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The influx/transfer of MiG-29s to Ukraine is good as it shows that countries are still committed to helping, but it's mostly for show and there are a couple of major problems with it.


(1) - While Ukraine have lost nearly 40% of their MiG-29 fighters (F-16 equivalent for those not up on Soviet aircraft) and nearly 30% of their Su-27 fighters (F-15 equivalent) they still have over 40 and over 25 left, it is a problem but due to their current inability to utilise what they have effectively combined with Russia's inability to challenge their airspace due to the SAMs it's not as big an issue as it would otherwise be. What they are having trouble with however is the combat ready numbers of their Su-24 (Tornado equivalent) and Su-25 (A-10 equivalent) ground attack aircraft. They have lost ~60% of each and in the case of the Su-24s they are down to just a dozen left. Running out of these aircraft will severely impact their ability to disrupt Russian ground targets and IMO these are what Soviet block allies should be focusing on sending not MiGs they can't fully utilise.


(2) - And this is the BIG one, the reason they can't fully utilise their existing fighters is because, to coin a phrase "planes don't kill planes, missiles do". While it's been greatly mentioned in the media that Russia are just using the same equipment as Ukraine or upgraded versions of the same equipment/etc there is one key difference. Ukraine's MiG-29s and Su-27s fighters carry the R-27 missile, it was developed in the USSR and is still being manufactured in Ukraine (so readily available). The problem is that Russia's MiG-29, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-57 fighters carry the R-77 missile, it began development in the USSR but wasn't finished until the 90's and as the tone of this may suggest it is a far more capable missile, both more accurate and with greater range. Essentially it means Russian fighters can take out Ukrainian fighters from beyond the range at which they can fire back, as I'm sure anyone still reading can guess that's quite a disadvantage for Ukrainian Air Force.

But sadly it gets worse, Russia's MiG-31s carry the R-33 and R-37 missiles with ranges up to 400km, designed to take out strategic bombers these missiles can be evaded by fighters but they are still deadly to transports, attack helicopters and ground attack aircraft. In fact the current missile situation is so lopsided that if they wanted to Russia could start dragging MiG-21s out of storage, give them a quick upgrade to MiG-21bis standards, strap on some R-77s (yes then made them work with the modernised 21s) and hey presto your sixty but you have the radar and missiles to outrange anything in Ukrainian airspace.


Ukraine aren't asking for F-16s because they need western fighters, or even because they have a shortage of fighters. They're asking for F-16s because they desperately need AMRAAMs, and that's the shortest route to getting AMRAAMs.
 
Looks like the Russians are so desperate for electronic components, they sent the Moskva submarine to go look for the wreckage of the drone
 
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Scougar said:
Can you give some context to Aaron and Grayzone? Is it widely known conspiracy stuff with little evidence or something?
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I'm not familiar with Aaron, but Grayzone is a aggressively pro Russian website and Pierre Sprey a nutter who appears on Russian TV claiming American military equipment is rubbish and that he invented several American aircraft (he didn't)

Wikipedia has this to say for Aaron

"
Maté works as a reporter for The Grayzone, a far-left blog[5][6] which publishes apologetic coverage of—among other authoritarian regimes—the Russian, Syrian, Venezuelan, and Chinese governments, including denial of the Uyghur genocide and other atrocities committed by these regimes.[5][7] In addition to his work for The Grayzone, Maté has also contributed to The Nation, and appeared several times on Fox News on Tucker Carlson Tonight.[8][9][10]

He challenged allegations of collusion between the Russian Government and the 2016 Trump Campaign, and the extent to which Russian interferenceinfluenced the outcome of the 2016 US presidential election.[5]

Maté promotes conspiracy theories about the 7 April 2018 Douma chemical attacks, in which the Syrian government carried out chemical weapons attacks against civilians in the city of Douma. Maté specifically attempts to cast doubt on the Syrian government's responsibility for the attacks, and has promoted his theories at two UN meetings hosted by the Russian Federation. With regard to Maté's reporting on the Syrian Civil War, the Institute for Strategic Dialoguestated that, among the 28 social media accounts, individuals, outlets and organisations which it studied, Maté was the most prolific spreader of disinformationon topics related to the war, including use of chemical weapons.[11]"
 
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dave28 said:
Poland giving 4 MIG-29`s to Ukraine and others to follow after servicing them. Or so say Sky.

This could spiral out of control now with NATO supplied jets VS Russian jets.
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Spiral out of control now?

It spiralled out of control the day the Russians crossed the border.

The jets are a welcome addition to defeating the orcs.
 
dave28 said:
Poland giving 4 MIG-29`s to Ukraine and others to follow after servicing them. Or so say Sky.
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Based. We need more of this, and from other NATO members as well.

dave28 said:
This could spiral out of control now with NATO supplied jets VS Russian jets.
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Nah. Putin will whine and bitch on national TV, but he doesn't dare to tangle with NATO.
 
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