Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Sankari said:
Pretty sure I've asked you this before and received no answer, but I'll ask again: what should the US do to end this war?

The current White House position is that no resolution is possible unless Russia agrees to leave the occupied territories. This makes perfect sense, because otherwise Putin will simply use them as a beachhead for his next push deeper into Ukraine.

If the US administration had no intention of ending this war, they wouldn't have specified terms in the first place. But it's a moot point, because the only governments that can make a formal decision to end the war are Russia's and Ukraine's. The US can't just end the war unilaterally.

So again: what should the US do to end this war? And why aren't you complaining about Putin's obvious lack of intention to end the war?
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I think for Roar and tang0 the US and everyone else should end their support of Ukraine and just let Russia win.
 
Rroff said:
She has some quite intelligent insights - especially how people can manage to dissociate the negative aspects of someone/something if they think that person represents or can achieve something they want to see happen or needs to happen and don't appreciate that it comes as a package with that someone or something. Which is something I see a lot with those who support Corbyn or Chris Wilson's love for Putin.
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Dam was going to watch that until I realised it wasn't just over three minutes it was three hours,
 
Sankari said:
Pretty sure I've asked you this before and received no answer, but I'll ask again: what should the US do to end this war?
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If you take Mearsheimer's view, Putin wants the eastern Russian speaking parts, he's not bothered about the western parts. Since the country is split that way and deeply divided over that issue. You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
 
Trusty said:
You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
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And what about my relatives (well, my Godparent's Son and his family), do they not get a say in the matter? They just want their family home back, the home they worked hard to build and the home that the Russians kicked them out of at gunpoint. The children still have nightmares to this day.
 
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Trusty said:
If you take Mearsheimer's view, Putin wants the eastern Russian speaking parts, he's not bothered about the western parts. Since the country is split that way and deeply divided over that issue. You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
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Indeed but why should we let them do anything they feel like?

If we have the means to stop them, we should.
 
*White House’s Kirby: Following the UN Charter Means Russia Should Withdraw From All of Ukraine
*White House’s Kirby: If China Wants to Play a Constructive Role, They Should Urge Russia to End the War
*White House’s Kirby: China Does Not Have an Impartial Position on the War in Ukraine
*White House’s Kirby: I Would Not Call Russia and China’s Relationship an Alliance
*White House’s Kirby: China and Russia Would Like to See the World Play by Their Rules
*White House’s Kirby: Biden Wants to Keep the Lines of Communication Open With China
*White House’s Kirby: Some Chinese Companies May Have Provided Dual Use Items to Russia
*White House’s Kirby: We Haven’t Seen Anything Xi and Putin Have Said to Lead US to Believe the Ukraine War Will End Soon
*White House’s Kirby: We Don’t Want to See a Ceasefire in Ukraine Right Now Because It Would Freeze the Battle Lines
 
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Trusty said:
If you take Mearsheimer's view, Putin wants the eastern Russian speaking parts, he's not bothered about the western parts. Since the country is split that way and deeply divided over that issue.
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But that's not even true. The country is not split that way, nor is it deeply divided over the issue. Moreover, there is no legal means by which one part of Ukraine can declare independence from the rest. It is literally unconstitutional.

Trusty said:
You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
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So your solution is for Ukraine to give up a huge slab of territory simply because her neighbour wants it. How many other countries would you apply this approach to? Poland in 1939? Germany in 1948? Taiwan in 2023 or beyond?
 
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Malevolence said:
And what about my relatives (well, my Godparent's Son and his family), do they not get a say in the matter? They just want their family home back, the home they worked hard to build and the home that the Russians kicked them out of at gunpoint. The children still have nightmares to this day.
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I dont know

HungryHippos said:
Indeed but why should we let them do anything they feel like?

If we have the means to stop them, we should.
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I don't think it would solve the underlying fracture if you allowed Crimea and the easter parts to become Nato/EU slanted under a Ukrainian flag. You'd be back at square one, civil discontent.
 
steve45 said:
Has it been confirmed that they are getting the L27a1(CHARM 3)? Makes sense I guess, with the phase out of the rifled 120mm I guess we might as well get rid of old ammo stock. Also I highly doubt we hold stock of L28 (Tungsten perpetrator export version), they would likely have to start hassling Oman for stock if they were to go down that route.
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For anyone interested it appears that it has indeed been confirmed.
 
Sankari said:
Pretty sure I've asked you this before and received no answer, but I'll ask again: what should the US do to end this war?

The current White House position is that no resolution is possible unless Russia agrees to leave the occupied territories. This makes perfect sense, because otherwise Putin will simply use them as a beachhead for his next push deeper into Ukraine.

If the US administration had no intention of ending this war, they wouldn't have specified terms in the first place. But it's a moot point, because the only governments that can make a formal decision to end the war are Russia's and Ukraine's. The US can't just end the war unilaterally.

So again: what should the US do to end this war? And why aren't you complaining about Putin's obvious lack of intention to end the war?
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I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
 
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Sankari said:
But that's not even true. The country is not split that way, nor is it deeply divided over the issue. Moreover, there is no legal means by which one part of Ukraine can declare independence from the rest. It is literally unconstitutional.
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Yes it is. It's deeply divided on this issue, hence the civil discontent over the issue over the past 20 years.

Sankari said:
So your solution is for Ukraine to give up a huge slab of territory simply because her neighbour wants it. How many other countries would you apply this approach to? Poland in 1939? Germany in 1948? Taiwan in 2023 or beyond?
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Depends. If Mexico were to become a satellite state of China? What would the USA do?
 
Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
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No discussion about the end of the war should be had without Zelenskyy also being in the room.
 
Trusty said:
If you take Mearsheimer's view, Putin wants the eastern Russian speaking parts, he's not bothered about the western parts. Since the country is split that way and deeply divided over that issue. You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
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So we get defacto rights to take any bits of the globe that speak English?
 
Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
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Jeremy corbyns alt account?
 
Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
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That asumes that Putin is a reasonable person who won't do things purely for his own gain and has some kind of sense of suffering of people. The last decade and the decisions he has taken hasn't shown that to be the case.

It's also now too late. Pre Ukraine this was remote but something that could at some point maybe be entertained. However after the war crimes that have been commited, the ICC arrest warrant, the complete disregard of the UN... I don't see any hope of any meaningful discussions on anything whilst Putin is alive and president.

Relations need a reset for sure, but that won't happen until there is a reasonable, entirely sane perhaps Russian President.
 
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