Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
I think it's useful to understand the oppositions points even if you disagree with them. Crazy notion on here I know
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I think it's pointless to even try, they have said various things but use lies and dis-information so much that very little of what they say is what they mean.

They'll say one thing, and do the opposite, they've destroyed more HIMARS than Ukraine has even had etc. It's gas lighting at the national scale.

To me, no matter what perceived reasons they think they have, nothing is really adding up to the result of the invasion being anywhere close to acceptable as a response.

I think this is Russia's version of "if we can't have it no one can" with a side of imperialistic land grab.
 
ci_newman said:
Yeah, he went strangely silent and didn't respond when I stated the Budapest Memorandum specifically states we and the USA must help Ukraine when faced with a nuclear threat (which they were / are).
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Do we really need to get into that? The Budapest Memorandum isn't the same as NATO article 5 or something, or are you claiming it is? They aren't facing a nuclear threat either. Russia hasn't said they will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, nor have they threatened that to my knowledge?

bingham67 said:
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Great, but Biden already said they won't provide F-16s
 
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Roar87 said:
Do we really need to get into that? The Budapest Memorandum isn't the same as NATO article 5 or something, or are you claiming it is? They aren't facing a nuclear threat either. Russia hasn't said they will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, nor have they threatened that to my knowledge?



Great, but Biden already said they won't provide F-16s
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Again you are aware USA isnt the only country to have F16`s.....
 
*Russia’s Defence Minister: Russia Will Respond to Possible Depleted Uranium Ammo Supplies to Ukraine by Britain
*Russian Defence Minister: There Are Fewer and Fewer Steps Left Towards a Nuclear Collision
*Russian Defence Minister: Every War Ends in Peace

*Xi, Putin Stress Talks As Solution to Ukraine Crisis - Xinhua
*Russia Committed to Resumption of Peace Talks ASAP - Xinhua

*Putin: We Did Not Ignore Situation in Ukraine
*Putin: We Looked at the Cooperation With China in Energy
*Putin: Russia and China Strongly Oppose Violating Interests of Other Countries to Gain Our Own Advantage
*Putin: Russia Is Prepared to Expand Oil Deliveries to China
*Putin: China Peace Plan Can Be Taken As Basis for Settlement in Ukraine When West and Kyiv Are Ready
*Putin: Xi Paid Great Attention to Ukraine Peace Plan in Our 1-On-1 Meeting
*Putin: West Is Fighting in Ukraine Until the Last Ukrainian
*Putin: We Will React to Britain Sending Depleted Uranium Ammo to Ukraine
*Putin: We Are Very Glad to Have Xi ‘Our Dear Friend’ in Moscow
*Putin: Russia Is Prepared to Expand Oil Deliveries to China
*Putin: West Is Not yet Ready for the Chinese Peace Plan on Ukraine to Become the Basis for Settlement of the Conflict

*Xi: Talks With Putin Were Productive
*Xi: Talks Were Open and Friendly
*Xi: We Agreed to Increase Trade in Oil Products
*Xi: Agreed to Expand Cooperation With Russia in Digital Economy
*Xi: Our Ukraine Settlement Plan Is Guided by Principles of UN Charter
*Xi: China Has an Impartial Position on Ukraine Crisis
*Xi: We Are for Peace
*Xi: We Are for Dialogue

Russia-China Joint Statement:
- There Can Be No Winners in Nuclear War, Should Never Be Unleashed
- Relations Have Reached Highest Level in Our History
- China-Russia Relations Are Not Confrontational Towards Other Countries
- Russia Positively Assesses China’s Position on Ukraine
- Concerned by AUKUS Alliance
- Russia Welcomes Normalisation of Relations Between Saudi Arabia and Iran
- Sides Agreed to Step Up Contacts With African States
- Sides Agreed to Step Up Mutual Support of Central Asian Countries to Prevent ‘Colour Revolutions’
- Calls for United States to Stop Trying to Create a Global Missile Defense System
- Calls On United States to Stop Undermining Global Strategic Stability
- Sides to Increase Contacts on Security Issues in the Persian Gulf Region
- Calls for Halt to Any Steps That Could Push Ukraine Crisis Into ‘Uncontrollable Phase’
- Moscow, Beijing Agree the U.S. Should Respond to North Korea’s ‘Legitimate and Rational Concerns’, Create Conditions to Resume Dialogue
- We Will Counter Any Attempts to Use Space Exploration for Armed Confrontation
- Expressed ‘Great Concern’ About NATO Strengthening Ties With Asia-Pacific Countries
- Russia and China Will Conduct Regular Air and Naval Drills
- We Will Deepen Cooperation and Trust Between Our Armed Forces
- Underlines That Relations Between Russia and China Do Not Constitute a ‘Military-Political Alliance’
- Expresses Serious Concern Over ‘AUKUS’ Plans to Build Nuclear Submarines
- We Are Seriously Concerned About U.S. Military Biological Activities Carried Out on Their Territory and Abroad
 
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Harlequin said:
Again you are aware USA isnt the only country to have F16`s.....
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Harlequin do you think you're the only person to have access to Google? Why do you keep typing dots at the end of your sentences, I think I used to do that on MSN messenger when I was 14.

Poland and the Netherlands *could*, but they don't have very many, especially to give away.
 
alec said:
Good luck achieving anything substantial using human waves. Tried that in WW 1, how that work out?

Difference in the actual frontline losses on eastern front in WW 2 is not that large if you add up germany and its allies vs soviets. And by end of war, when those numbers - soviet industrial production established advantage in military equipment - started to show, losses were close to 1:1.

Do not forget that Nazi Germany had institutionalised orders to reduce population in eastern territories. That included direct killing, starving, using civilians and prisoners of war as slave disposable labor force.
This was exposed in Nurenberg trials. Huge losses were not [only] collateral damage or human wave tactics. They were result of actual genocide.

I know you want to diminish russians. But please don't shift the blame on them for the greatest military crime ever committed.
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These crimes were a regular part of Russian political orthodoxy as the various dead cultures can(t) attest to due to being systematically destroyed during their expansions through the Caucuses, Siberia and elsewhere.
 
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Roar87 said:
Do we really need to get into that? The Budapest Memorandum isn't the same as NATO article 5 or something, or are you claiming it is? They aren't facing a nuclear threat either. Russia hasn't said they will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, nor have they threatened that to my knowledge?



Great, but Biden already said they won't provide F-16s
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Wrong. Russia has repeatedly threatened the use of nuclear weapons.

Nuclear risk during the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

And no the Budapest Memorandum isn't the same as article 5, which is why we (USA, UK) haven't put boots on the ground in Ukraine.

[Edit] and yes, "we need to get into that" because you specifically stated you opposed our help / aid being given to Ukraine. And I provided facts and evidence as to why we are and should be helping them.

If Ukraine had not demilitarised / handed over their nuclear arsenal then Russia would categorically not be invading them right now.
 
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Roar87 said:
Harlequin do you think you're the only person to have access to Google? Why do you keep typing dots at the end of your sentences, I think I used to do that on MSN messenger when I was 14.

Poland and the Netherlands *could*, but they don't have very many, especially to give away.
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Attack the argument, not the person.
 
Roar87 said:
Nothing in there explicitly states they will use nuclear weapons against Ukraine, please be intellectually honest in your posts or there's no point me typing anything.
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Is that your personal opinion or that of Russian people?
 
Roar87 said:
Nothing in there explicitly states they will use nuclear weapons against Ukraine, please be intellectually honest in your posts or there's no point me typing anything.
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Because you are clearly incapable of reading, I'll even quote it for you:

In apparent response to Germany deploying armed tanks to Ukraine, Putin announced in Russia's main legislative assembly that Russia would respond to any combative military provocation from outside of Ukraine with prompt peremptory action possible only with Russia's unique arsenal of nuclear weapons
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Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov did not rule out the use of nuclear weapons to defend annexed Ukrainian territories.[13] Several days later, former Russian president and Putin ally Dmitry Medvedev made a more explicit threat of a nuclear strike against Ukraine
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On 1 October, Ramzan Kadyrov, head of the Chechen Republic, called on Russia to use low-yield nuclear weapons in Ukraine in response to Russia losing the strategically important Ukrainian town of Lyman,[15] the first prominent Russian official to directly call for the use of nuclear weapons
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Try harder.
 
ci_newman said:
Because you are clearly incapable of reading, I'll even quote it for you:

In apparent response to Germany deploying armed tanks to Ukraine, Putin announced in Russia's main legislative assembly that Russia would respond to any combative military provocation from outside of Ukraine with prompt peremptory action possible only with Russia's unique arsenal of nuclear weapons
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Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov did not rule out the use of nuclear weapons to defend annexed Ukrainian territories.[13] Several days later, former Russian president and Putin ally Dmitry Medvedev made a more explicit threat of a nuclear strike against Ukraine
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On 1 October, Ramzan Kadyrov, head of the Chechen Republic, called on Russia to use low-yield nuclear weapons in Ukraine in response to Russia losing the strategically important Ukrainian town of Lyman,[15] the first prominent Russian official to directly call for the use of nuclear weapons
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Try harder.
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None of those are Putin threatening to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine, I understand there have been a lot of veiled threats, but international law doesn't work like that.

ci_newman said:
What you *think* is pretty irrelevant, you are a nobody.

For the memorandum, it means the USA and the UK are justified in giving support to Ukraine especially since they asked us for it.
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We can provide support without needing some weird justification from the Budapest Memorandum signed 30 years ago, the UK and US can provide military support to any country they wish. We just aren't required to.
 
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