Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
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Russia aren’t interested in talking, nor do we need to talk and make concessions to rapists and murderers. As ever, Russia could simply leave. If they didn’t enter in the first place they could have prospered with the west.
 
bris said:
Dam was going to watch that until I realised it wasn't just over three minutes it was three hours,
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Yeah his videos are ridiculously long, though he doesn't talk much in this one which is a massive bonus, I find him so difficult to listen to. Its time coded though so you can just listen to the Putin/Ukraine parts if you want.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Russia aren’t interested in talking, nor do we need to talk and make concessions to rapists and murderers. As ever, Russia could simply leave. If they didn’t enter in the first place they could have prospered with the west.
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We categorically do talk to and make concessions with rapists and murderers
 
Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
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I'm so tempted to post a hippy meme but don't want to risk the wrath of the mods.

What makes you think Putin is interested in any of that? Putin wants Russia to matter, he needs countries under Russia's boot for that to happen and no nation wants to be there voluntarily anymore. Even Belarus which is about as close to Russia as it gets without being Russia has only remained under its boot because Putin sent in the troops when the people tried to get rid of their dictator after yet another stolen election.
 
Trusty said:
If you take Mearsheimer's view, Putin wants the eastern Russian speaking parts, he's not bothered about the western parts. Since the country is split that way and deeply divided over that issue. You'd let the eastern parts and crimea assimilate with Russia.
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Then why did he try and take the whole country in the first few days of the invasion? Why take some provinces when you can have the lot, along with the vast amounts of food producing lands that he could then use as a power play over the West, with the gas fields he'd also stolen.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Yeah his videos are ridiculously long, though he doesn't talk much in this one which is a massive bonus, I find him so difficult to listen to. Its time coded though so you can just listen to the Putin/Ukraine parts if you want.
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One of the better videos out there for intelligent analysis of what is going on in/with Ukraine (and other topics) rather than just commentary.
 
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Rroff said:
One of the better videos out there for intelligent analysis of what is going on in Ukraine (and other topics) rather than just commentary.
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Oh I agree. I watch some of his videos for the guests but I find he voice grating its so dull and when he starts on about love and understanding like he did in his talk last week with Sam Harris I just want to slap him he's so naive. I'm not sure if he actually thinks that or if its an act.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Then why did he try and take the whole country in the first few days of the invasion? Why take some provinces when you can have the lot, along with the vast amounts of food producing lands that he could then use as a power play over the West, with the gas fields he'd also stolen.
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Some sort military tactics i'd thought, bargaining for more than you actually want.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Oh I agree. I watch some of his videos for the guests but I find he voice grating its so dull and when he starts on about love and understanding like he did in his talk last week with Sam Harris I just want to slap him he's so naive. I'm not sure if he actually thinks that or if its an act.
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One thing she touched on which I think is often not taken seriously ( https://youtu.be/vNhSCF9i8Qs?t=9534 ) Putin has and is often telegraphing his intentions but people don't notice it, ignore it or write it off as bluster, etc. but those things he is serious about, he will do them or attempt to do them if in his power and/or his conditions aren't met and ignoring it is not wise - it is one of the reasons I was more and more certain this war would kick off and while I don't think taking those aspects more seriously could have changed his path I do think it could have been used to make it less feasible for him to carry out these actions and it worries me those aspects of Putin are still dismissed and ignored, yes sometimes it is done to try and influence what people are thinking but that doesn't mean it should be simply dismissed.
 
Roar87 said:
I stated in my previous post that it isn't ok for Russia to invade and Ukraine is a sovereign country. It isn't difficult to hold an objective view on this, for me at least.

They didn't lose a cultural battle, both Russia and the United States interfered in Ukraine and the US backed side won. The big problem being that we expected Putin to accept a pro Western government sat on it's borders edging closer to joining NATO and the EU every year. Which again is problematic because they're a sovereign country and have the right to do that, except are they still a sovereign country with free will if the US interfered in their elections and supported a pro-EU coup that kicked out the Democratically elected pro-Russian President? Who was himself in power while being supported by Russia, who interfered in the 2006 elections. It's a complete **** show.
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If Ukraine is a soverign country then it shouldn’t matter what ukraine does - it’s nothing of russia’s business. To then decide to wage war on the sovereign nation just shows russian’s approach or foreign disagreements.
 
Roar87 said:
I think what is required to end this war is for the US and Russia to sit down and have very serious formal discussions about a whole host of things, such as NATO expansion, nuclear weapons, how both of them act covertly against each others interests, and look towards building a peaceful future where both countries co-exist and benefit each other mutually rather than acting as adversaries. Does anyone in either Russia or the US want this conflict? Could money spent on massive arsenals of nuclear weapons be better spent elsewhere? I imagine so. The collapse of the USSR was a great opportunity to end the Cold War, both sides seem to have squandered that. The war in Ukraine is simply a continuation of the Cold War, which itself stemmed from the power vacuum left by the collapse of Nazi Germany and the decline of the British Empire at the end of World War 2.
Click to expand...

The collapse of the USSR did end the Cold War. The issue here is Russia cannot come to terms with the fact its former satellite state really don’t like them and would rather pursue a different future to the one envisioned by Moscow.

Russia and the west could get along great if Russia finally accepts the reality of the world it finds itself in.

Instead they have played an appalling game of espionage, subversion and ultimately conventional and covert armed conflict to bully states into coming to heel.

There is a tipping point where the cost of confronting a problem becomes relatively small when compared to the risk of letting the problem grow out of control. With Russia that point has passed and we are where we are.

Their desire to have buffer states and spheres of influence underlines their commitment to keep Europe at arms length. The best thing for Russia would be to let the EU expand right up to it doorstep and embrace the need to integrate irreversibly. Just as France and Germany did after WW2.

That is one way to ensure a lasting peace, but Russia will not chose that path because it would mean facing up to many of their domestic failures and inadequacies.
 
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Rroff said:
One thing she touched on which I think is often not taken seriously ( https://youtu.be/vNhSCF9i8Qs?t=9534 ) Putin has and is often telegraphing his intentions but people don't notice it, ignore it or write it off as bluster, etc. but those things he is serious about, he will do them or attempt to do them if in his power and/or his conditions aren't met and ignoring it is not wise - it is one of the reasons I was more and more certain this war would kick off and while I don't think taking those aspects more seriously could have changed his path I do think it could have been used to make it less feasible for him to carry out these actions and it worries me those aspects of Putin are still dismissed and ignored, yes sometimes it is done to try and influence what people are thinking but that doesn't mean it should be simply dismissed.
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I much prefer to be on the end of the hyper missile nuke than being at the end of our missiles.
 
Stretch said:
The collapse of the USSR did end the Cold War. The issue here is Russia cannot come to terms with the fact its former satellite state really don’t like them and would rather pursue a different future to the one envisioned by Moscow.

Russia and the west could get along great if Russia finally accepts the reality of the world it finds itself in.

Instead they have played an appalling game of espionage, subversion and ultimately conventional and covert armed conflict to bully states into coming to heel.

There is a tipping point where the cost of confronting a problem becomes relatively small when compared to the risk of letting the problem grow out of control. With Russia that point has passed and we are where we are.

Their desire to have buffer states and spheres of influence underlines their commitment to keep Europe at arms length. The best thing for Russia would be to let the EU expand right up to it doorstep and embrace the need to integrate irreversibly. Just as France and Germany did after WW2.

That is one way to ensure a lasting peace, but Russia will not chose that path because it would mean facing up to many of their domestic failures and inadequacies.
Click to expand...
Cold war never ended, and Russia gave afgan weapons to kill western troops, just like North Korea, and those after.
 
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