Again as before Ukraine aren't acting alone on this - Ukrspecexport for instance works closely with other countries to upgrade military systems and refurbish older ones that are in use by other countries militaries, etc.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Again as before Ukraine aren't acting alone on this - Ukrspecexport for instance works closely with other countries to upgrade military systems and refurbish older ones that are in use by other countries militaries, etc.
I personally do not think it will make huge difference if things do kick off. Ukranians need big boy stuff like fighter jets, close support, modern SAMS and AWACS to deal with Russians. Javelins are great but once again, there needs to be more big boy toys in order to mount a real defence.
Refurbish/Repair yes and they had issues with that alone. Once again, who is going around upgrading highly complicated SAM systems like that on a whim? To develop a modern radar and manufacture new rockets required to upgrade for BUKM3 level its not a thing that is done overnight.
Its the same story with S-300. Ukraine fields S-300V variant which they struggled to even keep operational let alone upgrade.
The whole issue is that S-300V has old missiles loaded into it - 9M83 and its brothers. Meanwhile Russian S-300SV4 which if I am correct has S-400 missiles in it - 40N6.
To put things into perspective S-300V and its 9M83 and its brothers has a range of 75 KM at best. Meanwhile 40N6 S-300V4 has 400KM range.
I don't think some international companies are going around selling S-400 missiles on open market for you to go ahead and upgrade your S-300.
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Who said anything about overnight? they've been focussing seriously on this for the last 7-8 years.
Do you have any proof that Ukranians have upgraded their S-300 in a meaningful way? I am sure if Ukranians have managed to find or begin manufacturing 40N6 missile that goes into S-400 and has 400KM range we'd know. For one, thats a great domestic propaganda and to keep Russia at bay. For two, what a great export situation.
This whole 'well they've been trying' considering about reading that they could not even make T-84 Oplot properly. I'm not inclined to believe that Ukranians were able to upgrade their S-300 missiles in any serious way.
Without substantial proof, I find it very hard to believe your theory that because they tried, they managed to procure and jump multiple generations in radar and missile tech.
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Indeed - as always Enkore uses the best possible case on the Russian side and worst possible case on the other heh.
Rroff, so far you have done following:
- Went into detail how Russian T-90 is a total trash, so bad that they ditched it. Meanwhile there has been zero proof that Russian T-90 has any major issues that are what you're saying.
- You said Russia has single digits of their best fighter jets - but I guess you meant models? Even so how is Russia only having single digits of SU-57 and Mig-35 a big deal quite frankly. They have plenty of 'upgraded SU-27' to Su-35 levels and other fighter jets. But whatever. That's even before you get into whole argument that SU-57 and Mig-35 is not even a fighter jet to begin with. Yet these are the only single digits 'jets' in Russian arsenal that are top of the line.
- Now implying that Ukraine has managed to upgrade their BUK and S-300 in a very meaningful and scary way by talking to some international partners. Once again zero evidence of such anywhere.
Quite frankly, even if I'm biased at looking at best case for Russia, you are way above and beyond looking at best case for Ukraine. So much so that Russian T-90 has become a dead beat tank, with barely any functioning units. And Ukranians magically upgraded their BUKs and S-300 in a huge way - because they tried, yet somehow ZERO evidence of it and Ukranians are constantly asking for Patriots because they think their S-300's are inadequate. The Russian air-force has also been magically reduced to only having 'single digits top of the line fighter jets' while at it.
I thought that the drone had to be closer to Russian borders to see what is going on, I was corrected in next post and moved on. How is that for me to look into best case scenario for Russia - no idea.
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Never said that they were total trash very skewed impression of what I said - they've had issues with them, issues significant enough to activate a backup plan - that doesn't mean they don't have a significant number which are serviceable and working fine.
Do I really need to explain what I actually said there? your reply was basically to accuse me of saying the entire Russian mainstay air fleet was only single digit aircraft which would be a ludicrous interpretation of what I said...
Wasn't many posts back you were claiming Russia's radar systems could see all of Ukraine in glorious HD while apparently advanced US radar tech can barely see anything...
I've pretty much never given a outcome comparison in any of my posts as to who is better/worst.
Where is the proof that T-90 had significant enough issues to active a backup plan due to its faults. Where is the proof of any of this? Again, you are reaching. Just because Russians have decided to upgrade T-80's instead does not mean T-90 is trash. You draw conclusions here but yet fail to draw any conclusions with Ukranian SAMS - where they are asking for Patriots because their system is inadequate. Somehow the conclusion here is that they have managed to upgrade their S-300 and Buks into killer systems by 'wanting to do it' and talking to some 'international partners' as if such high tech equipment is sold on Ali Express.
Yes please do, what does 'single digit numbers of some of their top line fighter jets combat operational' actually mean. Please also take into account that you were responding and agreeing with Ubersonic how I'm understating Ukranian Millitary and Overstating Russian millitary.
Yes I did say that Russians would be able to see into Ukraine. Never said anything about advanced US radar tech at all. Please provide proof where I said that US radar tech can barely see anything.
Furthermore, I'm ready to admit that Russians will struggle to see into Ukraine that well especially in western parts with active countermeasures of US/NATO AWACS and Drones behind borders.
This is your direct quote about Russian jets and T-90. Post
#6131
Just simple question. Where is the proof that Russia went with upgrading T-80's not just because its cheaper. But rather due to crippling issues of T-90 as you are stating. Where is the proof that at one point recently, Russia had single digit numbers of their top line fighter jets combat operational.
I remember Ubersonic was being smart and pointing to SU-57 and Mig-35. These are not fighter jets.
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I never made any claims about the S-300, etc. I only countered your worst case claim as to Ukraine's military industrial and research and development position - mostly pointing out anyhow that the pieces of the puzzle you were missing there is that they aren't operating in isolation but have other countries who can assist them.
You were very dismissive as to FORTE12 being able to gather any intel over the border - despite it having advanced systems for that purpose specifically from these kind of ranges while in contrast as I said you were very optimistic as to how much Russia could do with their radar systems and so on.
So are you going to address you claiming that T-90 is unreliable and only few top of line fighter jets in Russian arsenal are combat operational
Yes I understated Fortes ability to see that far - considering that image is true. Very impressive.
I have zero issues admitting if I’m mistaken or wrong.
Address what?
You posted a picture yourself showing only single digit numbers of some of their top line fighter jets :facepalm:
Provide proof that Su-57 and Mig-35 are fighter jets please - light fighter jets at that.
Also, what about T-90 being trash?
Eh? you aren't even making any sense.
How am I not making a sense? I’m asking you to backup your claims.
What are these top of the line light fighter jets that Russia has in single digits? Interestingly, apparently they were in image I posted. I don’t recall any light fighter jets in that list in single digits.
Also again, what about your claims about disaster and unreliable T-90 that has issues with electronics and other things. To the point they ditched it for T-80.
Again, your direct quote
Why on earth would I be talking about light fighter jets? was a slight auto-complete error when I put light instead of line.
EDIT: As an aside my comment is in relation to pre-T-90M variants of the T-90 - with the M they sorted many of the issues with new fire control systems, new engines, etc.
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