Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Stretch said:
So why can’t we get the trash made domestically too?
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Stretch said:
So why does cheap labour make the trash worth making in china but not the good stuff?
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Well basically because if you're making trash grade products out of trash grade materials you only need to employ trash grade machinists to do it, and locally they would still require minimum wage.

But if you want quality you need skilled machinists and you have to pay them for their skills.
 
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Being blunt about it, Trump is the reason for this America First style crap. (Which really doesn't actually help America). Ukraine may end up suffering because of it, but I hope sense prevails.
 
America is frequently isolationist. They have been late to both world wars because of it and neither of those had anything to do with trump. It is phases they go through. Anyway off topic again.
 
Stretch said:
So why does cheap labour make the trash worth making in china but not the good stuff?
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ubersonic said:
Well basically because if you're making trash grade products out of trash grade materials you only need to employ trash grade machinists to do it, and locally they would still require minimum wage.

But if you want quality you need skilled machinists and you have to pay them for their skills.
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Kind of, but also the labour cost as a percentage of the product matters far more if its a trash grade low cost item.
If you can make an item in china for £1 due to very low labour costs, but its £1.50 in the UK which would you go to?

TBH I wouldnt say there is much the West can do that the chinese cannot match.
But if your spending £1m on something that would save you 5% getting it made in China would you actually bother?
 
Malevolence said:
Wonder what would happen if Ukraine asked the UN, or even their NATO allies, to provide personnel to help with humanitarian aid in the areas affected by the rising water levels? Would Russia dare to fire on them?
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it wouldnt be the first time UN peacekeepers have been fired on
 
Ta for all the answers.

I'd expect 10%, maybe a little more.

A third is a whole lot of cretins. I'm genuinely surprised* at that.


* "surprised" in civil service language which means "horrified"
 
Apparently Tokmak is getting hammered by HIMARS, they've had three seperate rounds of arrivals in the last couple hours, telegram users reporting dozens of explosions
 
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ubersonic said:
Then you also have the "Why do we even have to be involved, let Europe fix their own mess" crowds.
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Frankly if I was an American I'd be asking why Europe (including the UK) doesn't step up to the plate more - this isn't a situation which is going away otherwise and had a high possibility of affecting all of us if not stopped at Ukraine. People are very much mistaken IMO if they think this starts and ends with a dispute between Ukraine and Russia.
 
Freddie1980 said:
New imgary shows the dam is damaged in 3 places.
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I was looking at the latest imagary of the dam earlier today. More I looked at it more I'm convinced this was a deliberate setting off of placed demolitions. As opposed to negligence/incompetence. I can understand the center gated section of the damn failing due to increased water/previous damage. However there is 3 clear breach points, with the most southern of the two breaches covering the Hydro generation buildings looking the most obvious/suspect.
 
potatolord said:
I'm pretty surprised that 34% view Ukraine unfavourably. Just why?
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www.nytimes.com

Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History

Troops’ use of patches bearing Nazi emblems risks fueling Russian propaganda and spreading imagery that the West has spent a half-century trying to eliminate.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Probably doesn't help the cause.

www.nbcnews.com

German TV Shows Nazi Symbols on Helmets of Ukraine Soldiers

In a ZDF report on the fragile cease-fire in eastern Ukraine, images were shown of soldiers wearing combat helmets with SS insignia and swastikas.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

The west of Ukraine was full of collaborators in WW2, but it goes against the copiam/we support the latest thing trend to discuss any negatives or the reality of history. News articles are difficult to find on search engines now but Ukraine has always been riddled with corruption and extremists on both sides, Nothing has changed.

www.peoplesworld.org

Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building

Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
www.peoplesworld.org www.peoplesworld.org
 
We have to put this in context though as for the old USSR countries Nazism is less about specific ideology and more about nationalism, every single time Russia has called Ukraine Nazis it's almost entirely down to them not kowtowing to Russian influence and only a small part of it is to irritate the West who have a vastly different view of what it's definition is.

Either way it's impossible to avoid these symbols for either Ukraine or Russia because a fair chunk of both militaries employ what is little more than local militia groups and for Wagner in particular the prevalence of criminals who are very likely to sport such imagery even if perhaps they have no opinion on where it came from. Does it represent the entireity of their government? Somehow I doubt it considering the rather contradictory notion of a Jewish leader and the fact that Ukraine remains democratic whilst Russia is increasingly a fascist power is probably where any serious criticism for Ukraine ends imo.
 
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Lord-Jaffa said:
The west of Ukraine was full of collaborators in WW2, but it goes against the copiam/we support the latest thing trend to discuss any negatives or the reality of history. News articles are difficult to find on search engines now but Ukraine has always been riddled with corruption and extremists on both sides, Nothing has changed.
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Riddled with and/or surrounded by. It was, and is, an idealogical choice. When your home is being occupied I am sure the focus comes quickly.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
The west of Ukraine was full of collaborators in WW2
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Very true, and the Ukrainians were among the most brutal of the Nazi's concentration camp guards. They committed an endless stream of atrocities.

Lord-Jaffa said:
News articles are difficult to find on search engines now but Ukraine has always been riddled with corruption and extremists on both sides, Nothing has changed.

www.peoplesworld.org

Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building

Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
www.peoplesworld.org www.peoplesworld.org
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I'm gonna need a better source for that story than a hardcore socialist website. The Beeb's account is a good one.

It remains unclear how the fire started on the third floor. Pictures clearly showed pro-Ukrainians throwing Molotov cocktails towards the floor.

But Serhiy said he saw someone "on the third floor throw a Molotov cocktail through the closed window. However, the glass didn't break and a fire started inside".

People struggled to get out of the smoke-filled floor. One survivor told Russia Today: "We couldn't go down, we were seeing people from other floors being brought down and then those rioters down there attacked them like a pack of wolves."

But other eyewitness reports, for example in the Kyiv Post, said pro-Ukrainian activists rescued dozens of people from the burning building.

Some people got to ledges and were helped by ambulance ladders. Some fell. Some people were reported to have shouted "die" as people fell.

One of those who had been at the building, Anatoly, said the people inside were not "pro-Russian activists".
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This was a messy fight between ideological rivals, sparked by a pro-Russian mob ambushing local Ukrainian football fans. The violence became a riot, some of the pro-Russian mob took refuge in a building, and the building caught fire. Nobody's sure how the fire started, or who was responsible. What we do know is that there were good and bad actors on both sides. This was not a case of Ukrainian 'rightists' rounding up a bunch of Russians and deliberately burning them alive.
 
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