Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Hades said:
I have a feeling these are going to be available sooner than many people think. Here's hoping.
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I posted a week or so ago. I picked up on a Polish comment that seemed to infer they had been teaching Ukrainian pilots on the F16 for some time.
I went back to find it to link here but couldn't, maybe it was removed.
It kind of inferred they would be ready for action end of July.

Poland do seem to be at the front in regards support so to me it was completely plausible they were ahead of the curve.
Saying that, I believe its happening elsewhere as well, training in case we let you have ...

Someone better check who is onboard all the Nimitz carriers and at the B2 bases ;)
 
Hades said:
I have a feeling these are going to be available sooner than many people think. Here's hoping.
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The BBC article reckons 3 years to train on the type and a year to train ground crew: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65897919

They also mention the problem of Russia targeting the air bases where the F-16s are stationed. I wonder if that problem and the ground maintenance problem would just be solved by them flying out of Poland or another friendly air base?
 
Stu999 said:
The BBC article reckons 3 years to train on the type and a year to train ground crew: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65897919

They also mention the problem of Russia targeting the air bases where the F-16s are stationed. I wonder if that problem and the ground maintenance problem would just be solved by them flying out of Poland or another friendly air base?
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Why don't we just train Ukrainian pilots on the B-52 and fly them out of RAF bases?
 
Stu999 said:
The BBC article reckons 3 years to train on the type and a year to train ground crew: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65897919

They also mention the problem of Russia targeting the air bases where the F-16s are stationed. I wonder if that problem and the ground maintenance problem would just be solved by them flying out of Poland or another friendly air base?
Click to expand...
I think Russia would, quite rightly, see that as a direct attack from Poland etc, even if the pilots are Ukrainian.
 
Harlequin said:
Well you do , frequently , suggest Ukraine should give up and let Russia have it all so....
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You're just deliberately misrepresenting my position. I'd like for Ukraine to be able to win, I've said on multiple occasions Russia was wrong to commit an illegal invasion. Can we just be clear on that.

I just don't think it's possible that they'll retake those Eastern areas due to how dug in the Russians will be, and how many men and resources they have. From a pragmatic standpoint it would seem reasonable to negotiate and look at equipping the Ukrainian Armed Forces so they can protect the territory they hold, eventually they could look at NATO membership from there - rather than dragging out a conflict over many years which will cost European countries and the US hundreds of billions in economic damage and weaken us long term.

Suppose Ukraine retook those Eastern provinces, are people going to move in and settle and live in peace? Would the conflict ever end? I think the same about Russia holding it. At some point there has to be peace talks.
 
Roar87 said:
You're just deliberately misrepresenting my position. I'd like for Ukraine to be able to win, I've said on multiple occasions Russia was wrong to commit an illegal invasion. Can we just be clear on that.

I just don't think it's possible that they'll retake those Eastern areas due to how dug in the Russians will be, and how many men and resources they have. From a pragmatic standpoint it would seem reasonable to negotiate and look at equipping the Ukrainian Armed Forces so they can protect the territory they hold, eventually they could look at NATO membership from there - rather than dragging out a conflict over many years which will cost European countries and the US hundreds of billions in economic damage and weaken us long term.

Suppose Ukraine retook those Eastern provinces, are people going to move in and settle and live in peace? Would the conflict ever end? I think the same about Russia holding it. At some point there has to be peace talks.
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Even if it’s not possible for Ukraine to retake the territory they’ve lost, it is absolutely necessary to show Russia that any attempt to repeat the same trick will be far more costly than any advantage they stand to gain.

There cannot be peace until that holds true, and that is the primary purpose of this war.
 
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Roar87 said:
You're just deliberately misrepresenting my position. I'd like for Ukraine to be able to win, I've said on multiple occasions Russia was wrong to commit an illegal invasion. Can we just be clear on that.

I just don't think it's possible that they'll retake those Eastern areas due to how dug in the Russians will be, and how many men and resources they have. From a pragmatic standpoint it would seem reasonable to negotiate and look at equipping the Ukrainian Armed Forces so they can protect the territory they hold, eventually they could look at NATO membership from there - rather than dragging out a conflict over many years which will cost European countries and the US hundreds of billions in economic damage and weaken us long term.

Suppose Ukraine retook those Eastern provinces, are people going to move in and settle and live in peace? Would the conflict ever end? I think the same about Russia holding it. At some point there has to be peace talks.
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While what you are saying might seem reasonable if you take a step back from the conflict and view it from a distance - Russia/Putin has repeatedly shown that they will use any negotiation at best as a strategic pause and have shown no interest in any "negotiation" which isn't basically Ukraine capitulating - Putin has shown he won't accept any kind of negotiated outcome which allows for Ukraine to retain a robust armed forces even assuming they'd stop at the territories in the east - largely the notion the SMO is just about the breakaway regions is lies sold to the gullible. In that eventuality Russia just wants Ukraine ripe for the future picking when it is even less able to defend itself.

The potential for peace talks is pretty much non-existent whoever holds what while Ukraine exists as a functional state - there was a chance if Ukraine was able to put Russian forces under so much pressure they'd leave of their own accord there might be some kind of least worse outcome but that window has rapidly closed especially because of how much the West had delayed. The only other slither of possibility for any kind of peaceful outcome is if the current Russian regime somehow collapses but that depends on freak incident/accident and/or the Russian people revolting and neither look likely.

There is no outcome here really which doesn't involve massive misery and loss of life - whether in the short term or later - maybe it could be argued later gives more chances for a fundamental change to come about by some other means but we've seen throughout history that it almost always just leads to the same outcome or worse, often at a larger cost.
 
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