Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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Anyone heard any more about the HIMARS launched Glide bombs? they were due for delivery last month or this month? I suppose no news is good news?
GLSDB - Ground Launched Small diameter bombs
GLSDB - Ground Launched Small diameter bombs
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Soldato
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I bet that harpy doesn't even know what NATO means
Ben Wallace the defence secretary is saying today Ukraine should be more grateful for the weapons. I think this is the wrong the message, if anything we are the ones who should be grateful to them. They are the ones putting their lives on the line to keep Russia in check and are weakening them.
In truth I don't care if they are grateful or not, I just want us to do everything possible to make sure they win, that's the only way we thwart Putin's imperialist ambitions and get a just and lasting peace.
In truth I don't care if they are grateful or not, I just want us to do everything possible to make sure they win, that's the only way we thwart Putin's imperialist ambitions and get a just and lasting peace.
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Yeah I agree! If Ukraine rolled over we would be fighting them in Poland, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuiania by now.
Are those the hacked together munitions made from multiple parts?
Not like we've done much more than send them the minimum, even if we have stepped up when others haven't. Be a bit different if we'd sent them like 200 tanks, millions of rounds of artillery and so on.
Something which IMO is poorly understood - though I don't think we'd be fighting them in Poland, etc. quite yet. But if Ukraine had rolled over Putin would undoubtedly look to replay that card time and time again until met with resolute force - fracturing peace in Europe and a high risk of escalation to strategic weapons. Certainly we'd be looking at a build up of Russian forces by now threatening the next most vulnerable states after Ukraine and it would come to Poland and the Baltics sooner or later.
EDIT: We can look back and see them laying the ground work for it in various eastern European states and so on with sabotage and infiltration - Putin had no intention of stopping at Ukraine though at the same time I don't think he had any intention of a full scale invasion of Europe but if he'd had an easy time of it he wouldn't have just stopped.
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that's the one, 150km range if i remember correctly
GLSDB - Ground Launched Small diameter bombs
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We don’t have 200 tanks and millions of rounds of artillery to send. We probably should, but we don’t.
We should have sent more, earlier but that is very easy to say in hindsight. Most nations thought Russia would roll over Ukraine rapidly. Some expected the majority of Ukraine to accept Russia. So I can see the rational of not risking arming Russia.
Last I read every warhead first needed assessment and intensive testing.
Have you got a link to the source for this? Not saying he hasn't said that, but he's been the only Tory politician that's been any good recently. Most of the interviews with him or speeches by him that I've seen have been well measured, appropriate tone, insightful etc.
He's probably right. But for different reasons. It doesn't matter to Ben Wallace whether Ukraine are grateful or not. But sounding grateful will keep public opinion on the side of Ukraine. If public opinion changes then there will be political pressure to stop funding and supplying them. It's in both Ukraine's and our interest that they sound grateful so the public remain behind difficult and costly decisions.
We simply don't have that kind of weaponary to donate. Aside from the (admittedly small) amount of funding and weapon supplies, we have been instrumental in providing training and in breaking political deadlock. For example being the first to supply tanks and long range weapons, when others would not do so, opened up other countries to follow us. We may not have contributed as many weapons as they need, but we have put our heads above the parapet before other some other countries did.
My post wasn't so much about whether we could or not - but we could be a lot more committed to supplying them and not so much out of the kindness of ours hearts - personally I feel it is quite certain that if Ukraine had rolled over this thread would be taking a very different direction right now with a much more worrying situation for our lives directly.
Soldato
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I agree on the principle.
I think had Ukraine fallen then by now the conversations would be now what?
Had Ukraine fallen quickly would the Sweden and Finland applications have happened or not, and in what timescales.
However I think Putin would have consolidated first. Ie tapped into Ukraine properly.
Had we supplied nothing and used no more than a few harsh words I expect life right now would have been very much like it was pre invasion. Just with a chunk of Eastern europe now being controlled by another power.
I don't doubt we would have people saying "they have been very very naughty, but we need the oil (and now wheat/sunflower oil) so we need to make up with Russia."
Always tricky for Ukraine. They need to really push hard for more and better weapons saying its not enough, whilst simultaneously thanking everyone as if they have just been given the holy grail. Deviate too far either direction and they risk triggering more people.
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Historically Russia has sought to avoid conflict with NATO in the same way we have with them, there's nothing at all to suggest Russia would attempt to invade a NATO member. Largely because as much as they talk big, they're aware of the disparity between NATO and Russian Armed forces.
Yeah why I don't think they'd be going at Poland, etc. by now, but we'd definitely be seeing by now the signs that things weren't just going to stop at Ukraine - though I suspect like the previous times there would still have been denial as to what was actually happened until the first foot over the border
I kind of half-agree in that Putin would not be rushing to engage NATO and that works as a significant deterrent - but if Ukraine had been rolled over and the West just stood back, looked weak, individual countries just looked to their own interests, etc. Putin would have been encouraged to see how far he could push it, thinking NATO lacked resolve - we've seen time and time in history Russia only understands strength and sees [perceived] weakness as something to exploit.
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