Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I do exactly that body shape when I say "what the xxxx are you talking about?"

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I don't think Ukraine will ever join NATO. It's incredibly unlikely they'll defeat Russia on the battlefield, whilst there's a state of war in Ukraine or even a fragile peace we won't allow them into NATO because of how easily it could trigger article 5 requiring collective defence, and because Russia knows this they have an incentive to never actually stop the war because a perpetual state of even a minor conflict will keep Ukraine out of NATO. The only way Russia will agree to a peace deal is with a cast iron guarantee Ukraine can never join NATO. So realistically the only way Ukraine joins NATO is if they some how inflict a massive military defeat on Russia to the point all hostilities cease and Russia retreats - given the resources and man power of Russia this doesn't seem at all likely. Period.
 
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Roar87 said:
I don't think Ukraine will ever join NATO. It's incredibly unlikely they'll defeat Russia on the battlefield, whilst there's a state of war in Ukraine or even a fragile peace we won't allow them into NATO because of how easily it could trigger article 5 requiring collective defence, and because Russia knows this they have an incentive to never actually stop the war because a perpetual state of even a minor conflict will keep Ukraine out of NATO. The only way Russia will agree to a peace deal is with a cast iron guarantee Ukraine can never join NATO. So realistically the only way Ukraine joins NATO is if they some how inflict a massive military defeat on Russia to the point all hostilities cease and Russia retreats - given the resources and man power of Russia this doesn't seem at all likely. Period.
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Indeed, because if history has taught us anything is that country with the most cannon fodder wins the day, every day , right ?

I mean who would have thought they would stop Russia then force it back out of large swathes of Ukrainian territory??
Russia is the second most powerful military in the world with too many troops and resources.....

Russia will never hold itself to any kind of deal it designs regardless, no NATO commitment or not.
 
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Roar87 said:
Yeah, then you need to put someone in charge of deciding who's misbehaving and because that person is a human being they will naturally make a mistake and decide someone is misbehaving when they're telling the truth, and now you're censoring the truth in a potentially damaging sense.
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There always has been in the past. The news companies would "fact check". But these days it's degraded in to a free-for-all and fact checking for many has gone out the window. Opinion is apparently more important than fact. It's absolutely ridiculous. It is rapidly getting to the point where you can't trust anyone - they all have their own secret agenda.

I get the concept of free speech, it's like the idea that people can live in total freedom, but in reality freedom without rules ends in total chaos. We are heading that way right now. Who would have thought the all empowering internet, that connected so many people, and gave everyone a voice, would end up threatening democracy itself?
 
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siclilmonkey said:

Little thread about Ukrainian soldiers being trained by American Rangers.

Interesting to get their perspective for a change.
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Starts of a bit shocking but I can 100% understand the Americans position on not carrying Chinese made smartphones into combat. Teaching the core ability to read and use a proper map, not a digital device, is very important.

The bit about drones is a little funny, yes the commercial drones are handy, even if they do come with capability and security risks, a war with America would look very different to what Ukraine is currently fighting.
 
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Roar87 said:
It's incredibly unlikely they'll defeat Russia on the battlefield
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I think it's a real possibility that there will be some outcome other than the Russian army being defeated. They started this war totally unprepared, but they are still a much larger country with far greater manpower and resources. Usually, in war, that's enough to secure a victory .. provided the war lasts a while.
Ukraine's only hope is that the West continues to support it with weapons. The problem is that the West is like a small child, they bore easily. Oh, and there are elections, which can change everything.
It's not to say that Ukraine won't win, I'm just saying they may not overcome the Russian army. There is still the hope that Putin will be the casualty in all of this before much longer.
 
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Firestar_3x said:
Starts of a bit shocking but I can 100% understand the Americans position on not carrying Chinese made smartphones into combat.
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Security concerns about carrying a "Chinese" phone is a bit of a funny one, I kinda get it from a Recce perspective, if they have compromised security on the phones from a geo-location or data perspective, then yes it could risk future operations. However I think the risk is low, albeit not non-existent.
There has been in recent years, a move away from Type 1 encryption at the tactical level (Company level downward) as it has been found from experience it is just not required and becomes an encumbrance and a hindrance to interoperability etc Some NATO nations dont use any encryption at all or at best standard industry 256bit encryption of their tactical level communications.

Firestar_3x said:
Teaching the core ability to read and use a proper map, not a digital device, is very important.
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Very important yes, however the urgency at which they are training these troops is a skill that could be less focused on especially for "grunts", when pretty much every soldier in the patrol will likely be carrying a "backup". Though I agree Recce troops where knowledge of maps/topography and being able to orientate yourself and identify the enemy positions, it is key that you have a deep understanding of the basics. These troops will also be at higher risk of being isolated and in situations where they might find themselves with a damaged device or in GPS denied environment.
I can see the point the Ukrainians are making, they have integrated these technologies and capabilities so heavily and fundamentally into their doctrine now that it almost dosnt matter if they learn these basics as they would likely be unable to operate effectively if they were denied the capability. However that in itself instills the necessity to learn these fundamental skills... :cry:


siclilmonkey said:
I can see the Ukrainians teaching NATO if this ever ends.
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Oh thats for sure, we are watching and we are learning. This conflict is shaping future development and doctrine day bay day.
 
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