Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Roar87 said:
I don't think Ukraine will ever join NATO. It's incredibly unlikely they'll defeat Russia on the battlefield, whilst there's a state of war in Ukraine or even a fragile peace we won't allow them into NATO because of how easily it could trigger article 5 requiring collective defence, and because Russia knows this they have an incentive to never actually stop the war because a perpetual state of even a minor conflict will keep Ukraine out of NATO. The only way Russia will agree to a peace deal is with a cast iron guarantee Ukraine can never join NATO. So realistically the only way Ukraine joins NATO is if they some how inflict a massive military defeat on Russia to the point all hostilities cease and Russia retreats - given the resources and man power of Russia this doesn't seem at all likely. Period.
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It’s likely to be a very long conflict and this makes the war outcome impossible to predict. Outside of its territorial issues, Ukraine simply isn’t in a position to join NATO yet. I’m sure Ukraine will integrate to the EU and NATO as long they have the will.
 
Even if Russia is pushed out whats to stop them continuing to attack the border here and there to continue the "war" for as long as possible to deny Ukraine NATO membership.

Personal i don't see an end to the war once Russia is pushed out, unless Russia ends it. Only way i see Russia ending it is a regime change.
 
Grim5 said:
Putin has ensured there is almost no more space for nato to expand, now that's 4D chess!

NATO can no longer move eastward, just as Putin said he wanted, it took him 20 years but my gosh he's finally done it, no more NATO expansion from now on, take that Westoid bots!

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And the map doesn’t show the whole picture, many of those countries are now rearming with modern tech.

jigger said:
It’s likely to be a very long conflict and this makes the war outcome impossible to predict. Outside of its territorial issues, Ukraine simply isn’t in a position to join NATO yet. I’m sure Ukraine will integrate to the EU and NATO as long they have the will.
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For the short to medium term I suspect they’ll join NATO in all but the name, they’re being armed accordingly. For any more than that Putin needs to go and someone who wants to enjoy ‘western decadence’ needs to take his place.
 
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CaptainRAVE said:
For the short to medium term I suspect they’ll join NATO in all but the name, they’re being armed accordingly. For any more than that Putin needs to go and someone who wants to enjoy ‘western decadence’ needs to take his place.
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I don't think they can be considered de facto NATO members because the key part about being in NATO is the security guarantee which they don't have.
 
Roar87 said:
I don't think they can be considered de facto NATO members because the key part about being in NATO is the security guarantee which they don't have.
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That’s about all they don’t have. They’re getting the equipment and training required which for the time being will have to do. Eventually Russia will have little to throw at them as Ukraine gets more and more setup with supply lines and military infrastructure.
 
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steve45 said:
Security concerns about carrying a "Chinese" phone is a bit of a funny one, I kinda get it from a Recce perspective, if they have compromised security on the phones from a geo-location or data perspective, then yes it could risk future operations. However I think the risk is low, albeit not non-existent.
There has been in recent years, a move away from Type 1 encryption at the tactical level (Company level downward) as it has been found from experience it is just not required and becomes an encumbrance and a hindrance to interoperability etc Some NATO nations dont use any encryption at all or at best standard industry 256bit encryption of their tactical level communications.
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Carrying any active smartphone into combat is a huge risk the problem with a lot of the cheaper generic, probably Chinese, phones though a lot of them do phone home (which isn't itself unusual for updates and time, etc.) but are putting that data outside of Western control and/or that can be used to later compromise the phone by uploading software/firmware changes which are more sinister at a later date - which can then be used to try and worm via connections to nearby devices to get access to higher level stuff.

EDIT: TBH it is so pervasive we are better trying to plan for and mitigate against it rather than try and prevent - it only needs one slip up to undo any amount of clamping down on devices, etc. i.e. someone having a LTE enabled fitness device or something.
 
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siclilmonkey said:
Even if Russia is pushed out whats to stop them continuing to attack the border here and there to continue the "war" for as long as possible to deny Ukraine NATO membership.

Personal i don't see an end to the war once Russia is pushed out, unless Russia ends it. Only way i see Russia ending it is a regime change.
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That could probably be dealt with by Ukraine with a demilitarised zone, but one step at a time. Russia could collapse before that.
 
siclilmonkey said:

Little thread about Ukrainian soldiers being trained by American Rangers.

Interesting to get their perspective for a change.
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Would be interesting to contrast with experience training with UK personnel but I've not seen any detailed accounts of that.

EDIT: Some of this stuff they teach though is useful beyond just the rudimentary and can seem quite dated but is about instilling thinking for themselves, analysing and understanding what you are looking at and planning based on that rather than just reacting, rather than necessarily being practically useful itself.
 
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Grim5 said:
Putin has ensured there is almost no more space for nato to expand, now that's 4D chess!

NATO can no longer move eastward, just as Putin said he wanted, it took him 20 years but my gosh he's finally done it, no more NATO expansion from now on, take that Westoid bots!

Click to expand...

Yeah, now Russia have to secure a boarder with China and from the Baltic to Black Sea. Not to mention Russia has maintain control all it’s puppet states with a military force that needs rebuilding.

I can see the Russian population getting bleed dry to fund Putins special military operation and many of the oligarchs suddenly becoming criminals and the state confiscating wealth.
 
Rroff said:
Would be interesting to contrast with experience training with UK personnel but I've not seen any detailed accounts of that.

EDIT: Some of this stuff they teach though is useful beyond just the rudimentary and can seem quite dated but is about instilling thinking for themselves, analysing and understanding what you are looking at and planning based on that rather than just reacting, rather than necessarily being practically useful itself.
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Think of the Rangers as a crap version of the Parachute regiment.
 
Rroff said:
Carrying any active smartphone into combat is a huge risk the problem with a lot of the cheaper generic, probably Chinese, phones though a lot of them do phone home (which isn't itself unusual for updates and time, etc.) but are putting that data outside of Western control and/or that can be used to later compromise the phone by uploading software/firmware changes which are more sinister at a later date - which can then be used to try and worm via connections to nearby devices to get access to higher level stuff.

EDIT: TBH it is so pervasive we are better trying to plan for and mitigate against it rather than try and prevent - it only needs one slip up to undo any amount of clamping down on devices, etc. i.e. someone having a LTE enabled fitness device or something.
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Not necessarily, that comes down to discipline and how the phones are used. I'm curious in what capacity the phones are distributed, are these phones supplied to the soldiers as part of their kit or are they any old phone? Also I wonder if the wording chinese phone is just another way of saying generic android phone? I dont know the answer.
However I would like to think the phones they are using to achieve the capability are ones that have been issued to them and are running preinstalled application suites.
Most western ground forces have developed or are in the process of developing distributed situational awareness networks using smartphones running TAK or similar with chat functionality, messaging, plugins and applications to support fires and reporting, also any number of 3rd party applications to improve capability including drone control and feed downlinks etc. Some run off dedicated radio UHF networks, some countries piggyback off existing 3/4/5G infrastructure, though this limits capability to use it in an expeditionary settings unless supported by host nation.
 
Dunno about chinese phones but the russians were using phones on the battlefield early in the war as their military equipment was so useless and the ukranians were using their cell data to pinpoint where to hit them thats probably changed now they were also listening in to their conversations even the military top brass
 
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