Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Zelenskyy threatens to destroy the Russian fleet​


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has threatened to destroy the Russian fleet. The background is the expired grain deal and the increasing tensions around the Black Sea.

Via X, formerly Twitter the media project NEXTA reports about the clear words of Zelenskyy. According to the report, the Ukrainian president warned that Russia will be left without a fleet if it continues to blockade the Black Sea and attack Ukrainian ports. “If Russia continues to dominate the Black Sea and block it by firing missiles, Ukraine will do the same, which is a fair defense of our capabilities. If they keep firing, we don’t have as many weapons, but if they keep firing, they could be left without ships at the end of the war. And that’s what we want to show them,” Zelenskyyj is quoted by NEXTA. The media project refers to a related interview with Latin American media.

Link to this here news story =
 
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Scougar said:
P.s. Russia still has Romania's stolen gold that was given to Russia for safe keeping, and they have always refused to return it.
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An interesting thing there, is that by agreeing to inherit all of the USSR's debts in exchange for being internationally recognised as it's successor state, Russia actually made themselves legally responsible for the Romanian gold the USSR appropriated.

Of course "legal responsibilites" and "international law" don't exactly carry much weight with Russia as this thread is testement too. Hell if Greece can't even convince Germany to pay it's WW2 debts then Romania has less than zero chance getting anything out of Russia :P
 
More reports the Germans could be sending these. Apparently hundreds of them.
Freddie1980 said:
I don't how crediable the story is but there's talk of Germany supplying the Taurus KEPD 350 to Ukraine (500Km range, 450kg warhead)
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The US is expected to deliver 31 tanks. Just as the weather is about to turn and render them mostly useless.
 
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Rroff said:
I don't know how long it will take until the reality sinks in - if Ukraine is to make serious ground then the West needs to get spinning up production and supply of stuff like the AS-90, modernised Gepard or equivalent, speed up getting tanks in there which can out-range the stuff Russia typically uses, etc. and the ammo to support them.
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I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.

It's extremely unpleasant but I think that it might be an eventual reality as I don't think Ukraine, with it's current force projection, can force an overwhelming win in the next year or so with the dribs and drabs of equipment they're receiving and it'll effectively become a stalemate. Russia knows this and knows that "The West's" patience and money never lasts long. I mean do we all imagine that in say another 3-5-8-10 years time with different political parties around "The West" we'll all still be pumping billions upon billions into Ukraine, because without massive changes to the equipment we're donating, or a sudden coup in Russia (neither of which are likely to happen) Ukraine will be left in a meat grinder with an enemy whose main strength is being a manpower meat-grinder, as much as it galls me to say it.

* - most of this kit is donated or via "pay for it later once you win" which may never happen.
 
ianh said:
I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.

It's extremely unpleasant but I think that it might be an eventual reality as I don't think Ukraine, with it's current force projection, can force an overwhelming win in the next year or so with the dribs and drabs of equipment they're receiving and it'll effectively become a stalemate. Russia knows this and knows that "The West's" patience and money never lasts long. I mean do we all imagine that in say another 3-5-8-10 years time with different political parties around "The West" we'll all still be pumping billions upon billions into Ukraine, because without massive changes to the equipment we're donating, or a sudden coup in Russia (neither of which are likely to happen) Ukraine will be left in a meat grinder with an enemy whose main strength is being a manpower meat-grinder, as much as it galls me to say it.

* - most of this kit is donated or via "pay for it later once you win" which may never happen.
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Somewhat, but the majority of the cost is mostly money spent within economy’s of the nations sending arms. It’s also a very useful and cost effective way to turnover old munitions and update old kit.
 
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ianh said:
I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.

It's extremely unpleasant but I think that it might be an eventual reality as I don't think Ukraine, with it's current force projection, can force an overwhelming win in the next year or so with the dribs and drabs of equipment they're receiving and it'll effectively become a stalemate. Russia knows this and knows that "The West's" patience and money never lasts long. I mean do we all imagine that in say another 3-5-8-10 years time with different political parties around "The West" we'll all still be pumping billions upon billions into Ukraine, because without massive changes to the equipment we're donating, or a sudden coup in Russia (neither of which are likely to happen) Ukraine will be left in a meat grinder with an enemy whose main strength is being a manpower meat-grinder, as much as it galls me to say it.

* - most of this kit is donated or via "pay for it later once you win" which may never happen.
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Something I find a lot of people seem quite stuck in a conventional mindset over is running out of money in a peacetime vs wartime economy of even in a situation like this where the West isn't in a wartime economy but there are some aspects of it - running out of money can be quite different in this kind of situation to what people believe in terms of impact on activities linked to the war - though ultimately there is always a cost sooner or later.

Connected to that a lot of people seem to think that Russia will just go "fair enough" when this impacts their economy and accept the decline - they won't and one way they'll attempt to mitigate it will increasingly be to try and disrupt the economies of the West, potentially in unconventional ways.
 
ianh said:
I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.

It's extremely unpleasant but I think that it might be an eventual reality as I don't think Ukraine, with it's current force projection, can force an overwhelming win in the next year or so with the dribs and drabs of equipment they're receiving and it'll effectively become a stalemate. Russia knows this and knows that "The West's" patience and money never lasts long. I mean do we all imagine that in say another 3-5-8-10 years time with different political parties around "The West" we'll all still be pumping billions upon billions into Ukraine, because without massive changes to the equipment we're donating, or a sudden coup in Russia (neither of which are likely to happen) Ukraine will be left in a meat grinder with an enemy whose main strength is being a manpower meat-grinder, as much as it galls me to say it.

* - most of this kit is donated or via "pay for it later once you win" which may never happen.
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I'm not so sure about that, the US alone stuck in Afghanistan for 20 years and spent over 2 trillion USD.
 
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ianh said:
I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.

It's extremely unpleasant but I think that it might be an eventual reality as I don't think Ukraine, with it's current force projection, can force an overwhelming win in the next year or so with the dribs and drabs of equipment they're receiving and it'll effectively become a stalemate. Russia knows this and knows that "The West's" patience and money never lasts long. I mean do we all imagine that in say another 3-5-8-10 years time with different political parties around "The West" we'll all still be pumping billions upon billions into Ukraine, because without massive changes to the equipment we're donating, or a sudden coup in Russia (neither of which are likely to happen) Ukraine will be left in a meat grinder with an enemy whose main strength is being a manpower meat-grinder, as much as it galls me to say it.

* - most of this kit is donated or via "pay for it later once you win" which may never happen.
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That's strange because the US got their WW2 money back from Britain and arguably we didn't win anything, we simply lost less (colonialism was dead, the empire along with it, that is not a victory) than the other guys and the only actual victors were the US and USSR.
 
jigger said:
The US is expected to deliver 31 tanks. Just as the weather is about to turn and render them mostly useless.
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It will give the crews 6 months' of training time.

ianh said:
I think that "The West" will eventually run out of money/patience for all this free* stuff and Russia is betting that it'll still be hanging on in there by that point.
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I know that Western defence firms will be overjoyed at all the data they're receiving from actual use of their equipment.
 
Quartz said:
It will give the crews 6 months' of training time.



I know that Western defence firms will be overjoyed at all the data they're receiving from actual use of their equipment.
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Yup

Earlier would be nice, but time spent for the crews and support personal to really get to know what the tanks can do is rarely wasted and is one of the things that typically does make the countries with professional, long serving members so much more effective than conscript or short term armies, because it takes a lot more than just "here is how you operate your tank" to get the handling and understanding of it's systems and what it can to really settle in and for you to become confident in what it can do.

IIRC it's one of the reasons the US military spends so much time and money on training well past "basic on specialities, you can be combat capable after basic training, but a few months spent honing those skills (preferably with other elements of the forces) makes a huge difference in combat effectiveness.
 
Firestar_3x said:
I'm not so sure about that, the US alone stuck in Afghanistan for 20 years and spent over 2 trillion USD.
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The US also stuck in Vietnam for 20 year, for 14 of which they knew they had zero chance of victory but no president wanted to lose a war.

When the US government has it's mind set on fighting they're very good at ignoring the US public unless it can actually cost an election. And there's only one potential 2024 candidate that's against supporting Ukraine. If Putin is betting everything on Donny saving him he's even braver or crazier than the internet likes to make out xD
 
ubersonic said:
The US also stuck in Vietnam for 20 year, for 14 of which they knew they had zero chance of victory but no president wanted to lose a war.

When the US government has it's mind set on fighting they're very good at ignoring the US public unless it can actually cost an election. And there's only one potential 2024 candidate that's against supporting Ukraine. If Putin is betting everything on Donny saving him he's even braver or crazier than the internet likes to make out xD
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But maybe not as crazy as the US electorate? :p

The fact that there's even a small chance of the Don becoming pres again, it's scary!
 
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