Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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sityeuropa said:
So to summarise some points for you all.

Elected Ukraine president at the time wanted closer ties to Russia in 2014.
2014 protests happened, overthrowing the elected president at the time. (sponsored protests you never know?)
Ukraine imposed restrictions on Russian language with new government.
East Ukraine rightly unhappy with this and created some republics.
Minsk agreement drawn up because of the violence

EU / Nato should declare they have no interest in Ukraine joining these organisations.
U.S would not allow missiles on their door step during the Cold War. Similar issue here.

It wasn't right what happened in 2014. But you don't get to hear much of this side.

Too bad our stupid UK government and opposition and media doesn't look back more than the last year when it comes to geo politics.
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Quite a biased view of events, for reference Yanukovych wasn't overthrown because he wanted closer ties to Russia, closer Russian ties to Russia was one of his election promises. He was overthrown because he refused to sign the membership deal offered by the EU (also one of his election promises) because he wanted to join the customs union of Russia/Kazakhstan/Belarus instead. Which in addition to being against what the people wanted was also proof that he was either corrupt or insane lol.
 
ubersonic said:
Quite a biased view of events, for reference Yanukovych wasn't overthrown because he wanted closer ties to Russia, closer Russian ties to Russia was one of his election promises. He was overthrown because he refused to sign the membership deal offered by the EU (also one of his election promises) because he wanted to join the customs union of Russia/Kazakhstan/Belarus instead. Which in addition to being against what the people wanted was also proof that he was either corrupt or insane lol.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election

I dont know what Yanukovich promised but he did win against a very Pro-EU candidate.

Also, Yanukovich,Russia,EU and Protestors signed agreement he is to step down and hold new elections as result of Maidan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_settlement_of_political_crisis_in_Ukraine

What happend next? Ukrainian Far right stormed the parliament, banned communist party, tried to ban Russian language. Then continued to sign EU association before elections and therefore giving people a choice.

We in the west, said all of this is democraticly OK. The people in Kiev in Parliament were voting while far right nationalists were inside or outside the parliament. This never raised any red flags.
 
supafly said:
NATO should have just created a new form of membership especially for Ukraine to prevent all this.
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Very interested in a rough outline of such a membership, how can you simplify "attack on one is an attack on all members" into something that would both save Ukraine and prevent WW3?
 
Robbo said:
‘Peacekeeping’ mission :o

So now we just need one incident and it all kicks off big time.

Quite the de-escalation.
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Per West/Ukraine Russian troops have been in Donbass since 2014. What has changed? All fighting in Donbass in 2014 was Ukraine vs Russian army. Per NATO/Ukraine. What has changed once again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

Pretty clear official stance, all events in 2014 etc were not separatists but Russian regular army.
 
Looking at the news, and watching these events on the Tele/net I keeping referencing some of the WWII documentaries I have seen a million times over where Chamberlain flies off to Germany for meetings with Hitler and comes back with his deal of no war.

Although not exactly the same I just keep wondering are we watching events unfold right before our eyes for next giant piece of our history.
 
robfosters said:
Money. That is it in a nutshell.
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The sad thing is that you're completely right, given how penny focused Ryanair is I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ryanair had an exec meeting on the subject where they basically said: "Well, diverting will reduce risk but cost £x per flight, but MA never got any blowback for flying through a missile range, so worst case scenario we sue Putin for a new plane" xD
 
ubersonic said:
You don't mobilise nearly half your army along the border of a non hostile nation as part of an "exercise" no nation in history has ever done that. You do it for two reaosns, either you plan to invade or you plan to use the threat of invasion to extort your victim (I.E agree to never join NATO or it's the blitzkrieg for you). This is why they should be sanctioned now with either additional sanctions if they invade or sanctions removed if they withdraw.
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Training exercise with some added benefits from it
 
robfosters said:
But was there thousands upon thousands of troops, artillery, planes and field hospitals surrounding the rest of Ukraine at the same time?
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HALIFAX, Nova Scotia – The Russian government has deployed thousands of armored vehicles and troops into Ukraine to support separatist rebels in the war-torn country's eastern region, Ukraine's top defense official says, despite repeated assertions from Moscow of minimal military involvement there.

"It's a real army. They have continuous inflow of munitions," Pavlo Klimkin, the Ukrainian defense minister, told a small group of reporters on the sidelines of an international security conference here last weekend.
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This is in 2017

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...-of-tanks-troops-to-ukraine-top-official-says

And not just a few soldiers. A day after the interview was published, US General Ben Hodges said in Berlin that the US military was working on the assumption of 12,000 Russian troops in the region.
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https://www.dw.com/en/evidence-mounting-of-russian-troops-in-ukraine/a-18294255

2015

They were not surrounding Ukraine, they were 'In the Ukraine'.

Like I said, we all knew it was a Kettle since 2014/2015. Now we all sat down and agreed that its a Kettle 8 years on.
 
chrismscotland said:
Yeah.... "peacekeeping"
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I'm sure it will be fine, Russia are good at peacekeeping, the peacekeeping forces they sent to the breakaway ethnic Russian regions in northern Georgia did a great job until they got shot in a totally not a false flag operation and Russia had to invade Georgia to avenge them xD


NB: OT but in all serious Russian peacekeepers are actually surprisingly good, the ones in Bosnia were much better than their gung-ho American counterparts.
 
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