Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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NickK said:
Easier to probably hack the air defence or the missiles in flight..
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I just realised reading this, Ukraine claim they shot it down, Russia claim it was their own air defence, but it could actually be both.

Prior to 2014 Ukraine and Russia used to carry out joint military exercises together including firing SAMs at drones, if Russia didn't bother changing the command codes for their S-300 batteries in Crimea (they're digitally interlinked systems and can be remote controlled by another unit) and some dude from the Ukrainian air defence forces happened to stumble onto some old notes from an exercise then they could have taken control of one and gone to town.
 
Freddie1980 said:
If they did shoot down a A-50 I wonder how they manged it? If it was a Patriot missile they must have pushed a Patriot battery really close to the frontline to get in range.
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I've just looked online at a map of where the A-50 was when it got hit, and it's well within range for an S-200 or S-300 fired from inside Ukrainian held territory.

The impact location was ~130KM from the frontline, an S-200 can kill a target of that size from over 300KM away (it's not a guaranteed kill as it's on the limits of fuel but it can and has been done) so I would assume an S-300 can too.

Given that Ukraine has a stockpile of S-200 missiles they aren't using (they've been converting them to surface to surface missiles) they may have just said "Well the only thing flying over the sea will be Russian, lets fling a couple of these 60 year old boys that direction and see if they find anything".
 
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ubersonic said:
I've just looked online at a map of where the A-50 was when it got hit, and it's well within range for am S-200 or S-300 fired from inside Ukrainian held territory.

The impact location was ~130KM from the frontline, an S-200 can kill a target of that size from over 300KM away (it's not a gaurenteed kill as it's on the limits of fuel but it can and has been done) so I would assume an S-300 can too.

Given that Ukraine has a stockpile of S-200 missiles they aren't using (they've been converting them to surface to surface missiles) they may have just said "Well the only thing flying over the sea will be Russian, lets fling a couple of these 60 year old boys that direction and see if they find anything".
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Very dangerous but those S-200 missiles have been known to fly 200 miles off course and take out an airliner before... so indiscriminately throwing them at an area where Russia might be operating air traffic has a good chance of hitting at extreme range.

For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 (not the only incident).
 
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Rroff said:
Very dangerous but those S-200 missiles have been known to fly 200 miles off course and take out an airliner before... so indiscriminately throwing them at an area where Russian might be operating air traffic has a good chance of hitting at extreme range.
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I actually measured the distance between where Ukraine fired that S-200 from and were Siberian Airlines 1812 got obliterated using Google maps (~330KM) to confirm to myself they could do the range in question.
 
jigger said:
Apparently Russia has between 4-6 of these around the globe. If that estimate is correct, the Ukrainians have just dealt the Russians a massive blow globally by taking out a significant percentage of the Russian fleet, along with any kit that requires this planes capabilities.
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On the plus side for Russia, it's one less plane they need to worry about maintaining. :p
 
US Global Hawk drone been having a good long look the last few hours towards where the A-50 supposedly went down. All kind of rumours flying about as to what happened to it.
 
One thing that is very clear from recent events, is that drones are the future.

An interesting thing, though, is that drones seem to be having the effect that machine guns did back in WW1, there are few ways to combat them. I mean it costs nothing to make a drone and a fortune to make a missile to shoot one down?

Every time one of our ships launches an anti-aircraft missile at a drone in the Red Sea, I can't help but think that Sunak flinches.
 
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jigger said:
Funny our resident comrades bring up the morality of war yet never start with the question of why Putin declared war on a peaceful neighbour. Putin is the issue in this.
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People with your attitude are quite worrying, I do wonder how easily you'd join the braying mob if you'd been born in Russia. Calling people 'Comrade' because they object to multiple grenades being used to shred an incapacitated soldier bit by bit. Jesus, you guys just love a nice black and white 'goodie/baddie' narrative, I bet it feels good.

It isn't pro Russian to disagree with immoral acts of war, it is possible to have a nuanced view where you think Russia is carrying out a disgusting, illegal occupation AND think someone shouldn't be slowly shredded to death.
 
godinman said:
People with your attitude are quite worrying, I do wonder how easily you'd join the braying mob if you'd been born in Russia. Calling people 'Comrade' because they object to multiple grenades being used to shred an incapacitated soldier bit by bit. Jesus, you guys just love a nice black and white 'goodie/baddie' narrative, I bet it feels good.

It isn't pro Russian to disagree with immoral acts of war, it is possible to have a nuanced view where you think Russia is carrying out a disgusting, illegal occupation AND think someone shouldn't be slowly shredded to death.
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Too bad, get the f out of Ukraine then.
 
godinman said:
People with your attitude are quite worrying, I do wonder how easily you'd join the braying mob if you'd been born in Russia. Calling people 'Comrade' because they object to multiple grenades being used to shred an incapacitated soldier bit by bit. Jesus, you guys just love a nice black and white 'goodie/baddie' narrative, I bet it feels good.

It isn't pro Russian to disagree with immoral acts of war, it is possible to have a nuanced view where you think Russia is carrying out a disgusting, illegal occupation AND think someone shouldn't be slowly shredded to death.
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Russia invaded and raped and pillaged on its way, still hitting civilians on purpose with strikes.

That's pretty good/bad guy right there.
 
godinman said:
People with your attitude are quite worrying, I do wonder how easily you'd join the braying mob if you'd been born in Russia. Calling people 'Comrade' because they object to multiple grenades being used to shred an incapacitated soldier bit by bit. Jesus, you guys just love a nice black and white 'goodie/baddie' narrative, I bet it feels good.

It isn't pro Russian to disagree with immoral acts of war, it is possible to have a nuanced view where you think Russia is carrying out a disgusting, illegal occupation AND think someone shouldn't be slowly shredded to death.
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What?

This is war. They are all getting slowly shredded to death,all the ******* time. What do you think an artillery strike or bombing raid does?

You think everyone in a war gets killed instantly by a nice clean shot to the head? Is that the only "moral" way to kill someone when fighting?
 
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godinman said:
People with your attitude are quite worrying, I do wonder how easily you'd join the braying mob if you'd been born in Russia. Calling people 'Comrade' because they object to multiple grenades being used to shred an incapacitated soldier bit by bit. Jesus, you guys just love a nice black and white 'goodie/baddie' narrative, I bet it feels good.

It isn't pro Russian to disagree with immoral acts of war, it is possible to have a nuanced view where you think Russia is carrying out a disgusting, illegal occupation AND think someone shouldn't be slowly shredded to death.
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Yes, but I think it's ridiculous to say there is morality in war.

People are trying to kill each other and they are going to do that any way they can. They aren't going to risk their own life if they can help it.

I am not sure about this grenade thing you are talking about, but lets suppose a situation - you have what you think is an injured Russian soldier (who you hate for killing your friends) and you have a drone above him. Do you drop a grenade on him, or do you risk your own life by running over to him and asking him if he wants to surrender? I know what I would do.

War only has any morality at command level. Down in the trenches, it's barbaric.
 
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SpellowHouse said:
Yes, but I think it's ridiculous to say there is morality in war.

People are trying to kill each other and they are going to do that any way they can. They aren't going to risk their own life if they can help it.

I am not sure about this grenade thing you are talking about, but lets suppose a situation - you have what you think is an injured Russian soldier (who you hate for killing your friends) and you have a drone above him. Do you drop a grenade on him, or do you risk your own life by running over to him and asking him if he wants to surrender? I know what I would do.

War only has any morality at command level. Down in the trenches, it's barbaric.
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?

The dudes in the trenches were/are just average people and there have been plenty of situations that commanders generally loathe such as the Christmas truce during WW1 because the commanders needed the men to slaughter the other guys not talk to them.
 
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SpellowHouse said:
Yes, but I think it's ridiculous to say there is morality in war.

People are trying to kill each other and they are going to do that any way they can. They aren't going to risk their own life if they can help it.

I am not sure about this grenade thing you are talking about, but lets suppose a situation - you have what you think is an injured Russian soldier (who you hate for killing your friends) and you have a drone above him. Do you drop a grenade on him, or do you risk your own life by running over to him and asking him if he wants to surrender? I know what I would do.

War only has any morality at command level. Down in the trenches, it's barbaric.
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If there is no morality in war and no commonly agreed behaviour then why wouldn't CBN weapons be used? Why take prisoners of war? The fact is that yes its brutal and bloody but certain behaviour should be expected of both sides.

And there are very clear rules of engagement for professional forces that are typically adhered to, not just a barbaric free for all... (Also makes sense long term...)

And some of the sadists in this thread need to take a hard look at themselves and see themselves for the ghouls they are.
 
Orangeade said:
If there is no morality in war and no commonly agreed behaviour then why wouldn't CBN weapons be used? Why take prisoners of war? The fact is that yes its brutal and bloody but certain behaviour should be expected of both sides.

And there are very clear rules of engagement for professional forces that are typically adhered to, not just a barbaric free for all... (Also makes sense long term...)

And some of the sadists in this thread need to take a hard look at themselves and see themselves for the ghouls they are.
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If you are taking such a disliking to dropping a barrage of grenades on someone to make sure they are dead, do you advocate for any artillery shelling, and bombing to be totally banned from warfare as well?
 
Each side dehumanises each other "nazis" vs "orcs" puts you into a life of death situation "****** trench in a strategic field/town/ruined building" then 1 side throws itself at the other and says "the other side doesn't take prisoners, you gotta fight to the death or it'll be much worse trust me bro."

It is what it is....
 
Two points, rules of war only tend to work if both sides stick to them.

Second, there is no nobility in having your country invaded and losing because you followed the Queensbury rules. I'm sure the Ukrainians would rather not be murdered, raped and enslaved than some poster here awarding their corpses, and the corpses of their wives and children a fair play trophy.

anyone can have a "nuanced opinion" whatever you think that is, but what it clearly isn't is the same old posters picking up anything however slight the Ukrainians might have done wrong in their eyes while constantly ignoring the other side
 
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