Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Efour said:
So you all think it's ww3 when trump wins again?

Oh well might as well cash my pension and funds now.
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Two options if Trump wins in my opinion:

1/ He follows his M.O - He'll stop funding to Ukraine, call Zenesky and say there's no more money and demand the money back he stole from the US. The EU isn't giving you enough to continue to fight, negotiate with Putin or risk losing the whole country again. He will then go on TV and tell the world he's told him that, how it's am ammmmzing thing to have done and how he is looking after America's interests first. His base will lap it up, reinforce the fact the Biden's are a criminals. Meanwhile Ukraine is screwed (unless EU do significantly up their military supplies as they promised but are really yet to do).

He'll then tell the rest of the Baltics you might be in NATO but we have no interest in actually helping you.

2/ He actually pays attention to what some of the Senior GOP leaders are saying which is that Ukraine must be supported and continues providing military aid but less than under Biden. By that point he's probably already "solved" the southern border "invasion" so his base and GOP nutcases are happy about that. But then providing Ukraine with aid creates a problem as he's told everyone that they are dodgy, can't be trusted, in bed with the Bidens etc. But then when has doing a 180 ever been a problem for Trump.


I should think 1 is most likely. Ukraine may be forced to negotiate. Putin doesn't go after anyone else.. he's a war criminal and a dictator but he's not stupid and won't go after any other countries.

4 years go by, Republicans lose the next election because of the craziness of Trump. Dems get back in.. NATO is safe, too late for Ukraine.


WW3 - anything is possible with Trump, look at the Afghanistan deal. But he's Putin's shill, he's potentially in the pocket of a few Russian banks. I don't think there's much chance of WW3 kicking off with him as President.
 
redeye said:
Two options if Trump wins in my opinion:

1/ He follows his M.O - He'll stop funding to Ukraine, call Zenesky and say there's no more money and demand the money back he stole from the US. The EU isn't giving you enough to continue to fight, negotiate with Putin or risk losing the whole country again. He will then go on TV and tell the world he's told him that, how it's am ammmmzing thing to have done and how he is looking after America's interests first. His base will lap it up, reinforce the fact the Biden's are a criminals. Meanwhile Ukraine is screwed (unless EU do significantly up their military supplies as they promised but are really yet to do).

He'll then tell the rest of the Baltics you might be in NATO but we have no interest in actually helping you.

2/ He actually pays attention to what some of the Senior GOP leaders are saying which is that Ukraine must be supported and continues providing military aid but less than under Biden. By that point he's probably already "solved" the southern border "invasion" so his base and GOP nutcases are happy about that. But then providing Ukraine with aid creates a problem as he's told everyone that they are dodgy, can't be trusted, in bed with the Bidens etc. But then when has doing a 180 ever been a problem for Trump.


I should think 1 is most likely. Ukraine may be forced to negotiate. Putin doesn't go after anyone else.. he's a war criminal and a dictator but he's not stupid and won't go after any other countries.

4 years go by, Republicans lose the next election because of the craziness of Trump. Dems get back in.. NATO is safe, too late for Ukraine.


WW3 - anything is possible with Trump, look at the Afghanistan deal. But he's Putin's shill, he's potentially in the pocket of a few Russian banks. I don't think there's much chance of WW3 kicking off with him as President.
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I think the biggest risk for the world under Trump is the Chinese invasion of Taiwan. 4 years just isn’t enough time for Russia to take Ukraine. Maybe if Trump proclaimed himself King of America, but even than I think he and Putin would be in the grave before Russia managed to defeat Ukraine.
 
redeye said:
Two options if Trump wins in my opinion:

1/ He follows his M.O - He'll stop funding to Ukraine, call Zenesky and say there's no more money and demand the money back he stole from the US. The EU isn't giving you enough to continue to fight, negotiate with Putin or risk losing the whole country again. He will then go on TV and tell the world he's told him that, how it's am ammmmzing thing to have done and how he is looking after America's interests first. His base will lap it up, reinforce the fact the Biden's are a criminals. Meanwhile Ukraine is screwed (unless EU do significantly up their military supplies as they promised but are really yet to do).

He'll then tell the rest of the Baltics you might be in NATO but we have no interest in actually helping you.

2/ He actually pays attention to what some of the Senior GOP leaders are saying which is that Ukraine must be supported and continues providing military aid but less than under Biden. By that point he's probably already "solved" the southern border "invasion" so his base and GOP nutcases are happy about that. But then providing Ukraine with aid creates a problem as he's told everyone that they are dodgy, can't be trusted, in bed with the Bidens etc. But then when has doing a 180 ever been a problem for Trump.


I should think 1 is most likely. Ukraine may be forced to negotiate. Putin doesn't go after anyone else.. he's a war criminal and a dictator but he's not stupid and won't go after any other countries.

4 years go by, Republicans lose the next election because of the craziness of Trump. Dems get back in.. NATO is safe, too late for Ukraine.


WW3 - anything is possible with Trump, look at the Afghanistan deal. But he's Putin's shill, he's potentially in the pocket of a few Russian banks. I don't think there's much chance of WW3 kicking off with him as President.
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Have you actually considered listening to his stated position on what he'll do in Ukraine instead of just inventing some fantasy of what you think it is?
 
I feel like the word shill is meaningless as being called right wing these days.
Everyone in American politics is a shill, stooge or. Mouthpiece lobbyist. 2024 is gonna be this crap non stop.... The next us election is gonna be unbearable to watch, see the clown show roll out and **** the bed one way or another.

One sentence trump utters is treated as gospel then the next is incompetent ramblings and nonsense.
Some would say all he says is bs. I kinda subscribe to that. He's the definition of walking ******** merchant.

The world hinges on the US one way or another, yet again..... Isn't it time for Europe to just give up on the USA?
Cut loose our little child :p

Let them come to our aid when ww3 kicks off and Europe is a bit flatter and glassy looking.
 
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It's a rock and a hard place re Trump / Biden.

Trump is, well it's been done to death in this thread. But yeh, happened to tune into one of Biden's live presentations at some Uni, can't quite remember.

That guy doesn't have long left on this planet bless him. He can barely function. He had trouble walking, talking, reading his queue cards etc. I wouldn't let the guy drive my taxi let alone "run" the US.
 
Roar87 said:
Have you actually considered listening to his stated position on what he'll do in Ukraine instead of just inventing some fantasy of what you think it is?
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Can you show me where Trump says anything other than forcing a deal in the first 24 hours of office?

Threatening Zelensky with cutting off all support and threatening Putin with giving Ukraine everything she asks for?


Which is a bit of a con because any deal is going to involve the loss of UA land to RU. That loss of land will only reflect badly on Zelensky who will likely have to flee UA or he'll be killed.

That land will likely be referred to as a DMZ in favour of UA joining EU and NATO (no NATO, no real protection) Russia will take advantage and settle RU citizens into the DMZ. Ukraine will complain but no one will really care as there's less shooting and less economic cost on the world. RU will rebuild and probably wait for China to shoot it's load all over Taiwan. US and NATO then has to decide who to save Taiwan or Europe.
 
Roar87 said:
Have you actually considered listening to his stated position on what he'll do in Ukraine instead of just inventing some fantasy of what you think it is?
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Other times he's said other things, but on numerous times he's said that. Maybe not word for word, but near as dammit makes no difference.

Also if you add abit of critical thinking into the mix, there are very few other ways he would act based on his history and what he's said. He said if he was in power there would have been no war, he said if he is in power he'd end it on day one - there is only one way to end it from the US's point of view on day one, that is to withdraw support and demand Ukraine negotiate. There are no other options that would lead to it ending from their point of view.

And lastly.. i said "my opinion".

Nate75 said:
That guy doesn't have long left on this planet bless him. He can barely function. He had trouble walking, talking, reading his queue cards etc. I wouldn't let the guy drive my taxi let alone "run" the US.
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I think he's doing well for his age, but he shouldn't be president. Nor should Trump (he should be in jail / barred from serving public office at the very least). It's a damming inditement of US politics right now it really is.
 
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redeye said:
I think he's doing well for his age, but he shouldn't be president. Nor should Trump (he should be in jail / barred from serving public office at the very least). It's a damming inditement of US politics right now it really is.
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My dad isn't much younger, still has his full mental faculties (fortunately), still going up ladders to clear the gutters, etc. :( Biden likely wouldn't be doing well at all if not for the medical care on hand.
 
Rroff said:
My dad isn't much younger, still has his full mental faculties (fortunately), still going up ladders to clear the gutters, etc. :( Biden likely wouldn't be doing well at all if not for the medical care on hand.
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That may be so, but would you want him as Prime Minister at his age?

This is the fundamental problem with America.. They keep voting in fossils from a bygone era, completely out of touch with the world they now live in.
 
We've all seen the memes, read the commentary or whatever re Biden's "age issues".

But after watching that live 30min or however long it was presentation, I was left genuinely shocked by it.
 
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jigger said:
How many times is this now? You can’t negotiate with Russia in its current state... honestly your solution is beyond stupid at this point.
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Ah insults are allowed again now or will I get for replying?

And only a fool thinks you cannot negotiate negotiations are done daily by parties that don't trust each other....typically just increases the risk premium and or exotic arrangements. Just because you don't have the imagination to think of something doesn't mean negotiators cannot....

Does it mean it's easy or even fair? Who knows but to blanket say it can't be done is just silly or every battle conflict would turn into total war...
 
Devilman said:
This is the fundamental problem with America.. They keep voting in fossils from a bygone era, completely out of touch with the world they now live in.
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This isn't true:

hsoaeWw.jpg


Biden and Trump are outliers, not the normal. And while they are two of the oldest, Clinton and Obama are two of the youngest.
 
Orangeade said:
Ah insults are allowed again now or will I get for replying?

And only a fool thinks you cannot negotiate negotiations are done daily by parties that don't trust each other....typically just increases the risk premium and or exotic arrangements. Just because you don't have the imagination to think of something doesn't mean negotiators cannot....

Does it mean it's easy or even fair? Who knows but to blanket say it can't be done is just silly or every battle conflict would turn into total war...
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There is a point negotiations fail and faith can never be restored without at the very least significant gestures the other party seems unwilling to give... sometimes the only negotiation possible is with the barrel of a gun.

As for insults - and more a general point rather than specific to this exchange - that goes both ways - people posting such utter tripe that even they likely don't believe it are no less insulting really than someone attacking them personally.
 
Rroff said:
Something of a trend in the last half of that graph if you look at the highest values, not sure what the average is of the first half.
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Back of the envelope guess looks to put it around 53-56 across the whole graph.


Mr Jack said:
This isn't true:

*snip*

Biden and Trump are outliers, not the normal. And while they are two of the oldest, Clinton and Obama are two of the youngest.
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Fair point, Perhaps I should have said "They recently have been voting in fossils from a bygone era who are out of touch with the world they now live in"

Either way the issue is the same :- The most powerful country in the world (arguably) being led by an out-of-touch pensioner. :(
 
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