Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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alchal said:
They are claiming it was friendly fire....again.


Lolz.
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I mean to be fair, unless we are not getting the full picture I think FF is actually believable. Its been suggested by some that know, that the capabilities of Patriot exceeds that of "officially" recognised stats. However to be over 50km beyond that of the of the "known" max range seems fishy. but impressive if true.
I guess its not out of the realms of possibility its A-2-A hit, however I'd expect Ukraine would boasting that...
 
steve45 said:
I mean to be fair, unless we are not getting the full picture I think FF is actually believable. Its been suggested by some that know, that the capabilities of Patriot exceeds that of "officially" recognised stats. However to be over 50km beyond that of the of the "known" max range seems fishy. but impressive if true.
I guess its not out of the realms of possibility its A-2-A hit, however I'd expect Ukraine would boasting that...
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Maybe better to keep it under wraps...

Either way, embarrassing for Russia that they possibly can't detect an f-16 or that they can't stop shooting themselves.
 
steve45 said:
Its been suggested by some that know, that the capabilities of Patriot exceeds that of "officially" recognised stats. However to be over 50km beyond that of the of the "known" max range seems fishy.
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The max advertised range is usually the max range at which a SAM system can be relied on to probably hit the target. If you're willing to risk a missile falling out of the sky (or worse, acquiring a civilian target) then you can fire them much further.

I.E the S-200 has a ~300KM advertised "max range" but they have been known to hit targets over 350KM from the launcher.

If Ukraine knew that the only thing for their missiles to possibly find in the direction they were pointed were Russian aircraft then they may have just fired a couple off to see if they found anything before flaming out.
 
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steve45 said:
I mean to be fair, unless we are not getting the full picture I think FF is actually believable. Its been suggested by some that know, that the capabilities of Patriot exceeds that of "officially" recognised stats. However to be over 50km beyond that of the of the "known" max range seems fishy. but impressive if true.
I guess its not out of the realms of possibility its A-2-A hit, however I'd expect Ukraine would boasting that...
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The thing is, I'm reading write ups saying Russia is using these awacs mainly for attacks, when it has forces launching forward offensives, they put the awacs up to find any threats. If that's the case then this awacs was flying during a Russian offensive and the plane was looking for Ukrainian defences.

Second thing to consider, we also know that Russian doctrine is to switch off their own air defences when their planes are in the air during an offensive operation.

So based on all of this, Russian air defences should be offline while this awacs was in the air. And this also not unique to Russia, the US tends to do the same, which is why their Jordanian base got hit by an enemy drone, they had all the air defences turned off because they had drones in the air providing intelligence for offensive operations
 
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Grim5 said:
The thing is, I'm reading write ups saying Russia is using these awacs mainly for attacks, when it has forces launching forward offensives, they put the awacs up to find any threats. If that's the case then this awacs was flying during a Russian offensive and the plane was looking for Ukrainian defences.
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In order to retrofit the Kinzhal missile onto the MiG-31K Russia had to remove it's radar to balance it's airframe. In order to fire the missile it requires targeting data from an A-50.
 
ubersonic said:
The max advertised range is usually the max range at which a SAM system can be relied on to probably hit the target. If you're willing to risk a missile falling out of the sky (or worse, acquiring a civilian target) then you can fire them much further.

I.E the S-200 has a ~300KM advertised "max range" but they have been known to hit targets over 350KM from the launcher.

If Ukraine knew that the only thing for their missiles to possibly find in the direction they were pointed were Russian aircraft then they may have just fired a couple off to see if they found anything before flaming out.
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Iirc the Patriot pac3 missile stated range is for when the target is a high altitude ballistic missile. If the Patriot is fired at a non ballistic slower moving and lower altitude target, like a slow big plane, then it's actually flight range is greater than the official range, how much greater I don't know

Essentially the flight range of Patriot that you see on Wikipedia is just the worst case scenario, but the missile can fly further than that depending on what the target and its location is
 
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Interesting video from The Sun. At 8:20 you see a Kinzhal missile that was intercepted by two Patriot missiles, interesitng that the missile was relatively intact, I would have thought an explosive device hitting a missile carrying a large warhead would have blow it to smithereens. The other takeaway from the video is the cruise missiles the Russian airforce fires are fresh out the factory as Ukraine thinks they has used up it's pre war stockpiles.

 
Conditions on the Russian front line are hellish, with former convicts in charge of unwilling soldiers whom they are now torturing, raping, and killing.

"The shelling of our positions is still constant. During this time our convicts have completely lost their heads. They realise that everyone will die. That's why they torture ordinary guys, whoever they can," says an artillerymen. Some perceived offenders are lynched.
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The regime they have established reportedly includes murders, tortures and arbitrary imprisonment. In a video provided by an interviewee, four naked men are seen being humiliated while being filmed by several clothed soldiers, before being thrown into a pit on a frosty night.
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Brutal punishments are not just confined to Russian fighters. In January 2024, Serbian mercenary Dejan Berić recorded a video in which he complained that his fellow mercenaries were sent on an assault without grenade launchers and with only two magazines of bullets.

Berić says that the Serbs refused to join the assault and requested a transfer to another unit with “real Russian officers.” In response, all their ammunition and weapons were taken away, and the men – including those sick with pneumonia – were driven into the forest.
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You know it's bad when even the Serbs are starting to suggest that torturing people might not be a good idea after all.
 
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Freddie1980 said:
Interesting video from The Sun. At 8:20 you see a Kinzhal missile that was intercepted by two Patriot missiles, interesitng that the missile was relatively intact, I would have thought an explosive device hitting a missile carrying a large warhead would have blow it to smithereens. The other takeaway from the video is the cruise missiles the Russian airforce fires are fresh out the factory as Ukraine thinks they has used up it's pre war stockpiles.

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Some (most) missiles don’t actually hit the target, but explode near (ahead usually) causing damage and it’s the targets own velocity that causes the destruction.
 
Well one thing's for sure. The plane did give them early warning and a full 30 seconds before the missile hit to know flares wasn't going to save them and perhaps time to regret their life choices in doing war crimes in a 1970s plane up against 1990s technology.

Hope some were still conscious by the time they hit the sea, ooohh I'm savouring the vatnik pain tonight :D
 
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Puppetmaster said:
So is it F-16s, Ukraine being very aggressive with air defence or Russia dropping the ball hard
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This has me very intrigued. Is it possible we are seeing a weapon system that we are not tracking/aware of in use here? Is there anything relatively "mobile" (not talking shoot and scoot) that could have been supplied/homegrown/legacy? One that can potentially strike at ranges 180km+
It seems so incredibly risky, borderline reckless to be using a Patriot system on the front line in an almost offensive role, albeit incredibly effective if that is indeed the case.
 
TBH a lot of weapon systems have probability to hit well beyond the stated max range, especially if you don't have to worry about friendly or civilian aircraft and just "yeet" them into the area you suspect the enemy to be operating and let the seeker do the work.

It might even be as simple as some tuned up ASRAAMs - the stated ranges are the minimum and the platform it is based on is capable of ranges in excess of 160km.
 
steve45 said:
This has me very intrigued. Is it possible we are seeing a weapon system that we are not tracking/aware of in use here? Is there anything relatively "mobile" (not talking shoot and scoot) that could have been supplied/homegrown/legacy? One that can potentially strike at ranges 180km+
It seems so incredibly risky, borderline reckless to be using a Patriot system on the front line in an almost offensive role, albeit incredibly effective if that is indeed the case.
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I’ve seen reports suggesting Ukraine are moving a Patriot up to the front recently for this very tactic, shoot and scoot similar to Himars.
 
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