Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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alchal

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Angilion said:
Tanks haven't been made obsolete when used appropriately. Russia's extremely heavy loss of tanks is in large part due to using tanks incorrectly. Bad maintainence, bad training, bad logistics and bad application of tanks. Terribly bad in some cases. Sending tanks in alone was well known as being a bad thing to do almost as soon as tanks existed back in WW1, but Russia has been doing that now. Which is nuts unless you know your enemies never have any weapon more powerful than a rifle. I don't understand how any military could screw up using tanks so badly. I know better and I'm just a civilian with a slight interest in history.

Tanks have been a dangerous place to be at least as far back as WW2. Anti-tank weapons were much worse then than now, but so were tanks. WW2 planes and guns could destroy WW2 tanks. From 2 miles away in the case of some anti-tank guns. The most famous being the German PAK 43. That had a maximum range of ~15Km, although much less if you wanted a good chance of hitting the tank. But 2 miles away, sure. Maybe not with the first shot, but shells are much cheaper than modern missiles so if you had adequate logistics you could just fire half a dozen times.

The reason why tanks aren't obsolete is that they do something useful in war and there isn't anything else that does it as well. Their vulnerabilities don't negate the fact that there isn't a replacement for them, so the emphasis (except in Russia, apparently), is on mitigating the vulnerabilities of tanks rather than on replacing tanks.

There's a more detailed video here, if you want more detail from someone with far more knowledge than me:

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Indeed , active protection systems are making tanks far more survivable, you only have to look to Israel and thier merkavas armed with trophy systems to show the tank and heavy armour in general are far from dead.
 

footman

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It's interesting that the two Allied weapons often credited as having been so important in winning WW2 were the 17 pound anti-tank gun both as a stand alone piece or as a Sherman Firefly and the Hawker Typhoon. Both of these are being admirably replicated by the Ukranians in the form of one man anti tank weapons and artillery enabled drones, modern takes on the proven anti tank weapons of yesteryear.
 

Turn

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Past 6hrs:
*Ukraine Military: Two Missiles Hit A Military Facility In Odesa And Two Residential Buildings
*Odesa Region Spokesperson: There Are Casualties From Odesa Missile Strike, Exact Toll Still Not Confirmed
*Head Of Ukraine President's Office: Five Killed, 18 Wounded In Odesa Missile Strike

*Russia Defence Ministry Says High Precision Missiles Destroyed Logistics Terminal in Odesa Where Foreign Weapons Were Being Stored — TASS
*Russia Defence Ministry Says Its Forces Killed Up to 200 Ukrainian Troops, Destroyed More Than 30 Armored and Other Vehicles on Saturday

*Turkish Foreign Minister: Turkish Air Space Closed To Military And Civilian Planes Carrying Troops From Russia To Syria - State Broadcaster TRT Haber
*OSCE: Extremely Concerned That a Number of Monitors “Have Been Deprived of Their Liberty” in Eastern Ukraine, Using All Available Channels to Secure Their Release

Past 2hrs:
*Ukraine Presidential Official: Zelenskiy Spoke With UK’s Johnson About New Phase of Military Aid, Including Heavy Weapons
*UK Prime Minister Johnson in Call With Ukrainian President Zelenskiy Confirmed That the UK Is Providing More Defensive Military Aid, Including Protected Mobility Vehicles, Drones and Anti-Tank Weapons


*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: He Sought Talks With Putin Because Talks via Negotiators Will Not Achieve Desired Result
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: I Want to End This War, Any Decent Person Would Choose the Diplomatic Path
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Ukraine Will Abandon Talks if Russia Destroys “Our People” in Mariupol and Holds “Pseudo-Referendums” to Create “Pseudo-Republics” In Occupied Areas
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Everywhere Russia Occupies Will Be Retaken by Ukrainian Forces
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Today Has Been One of the Most Difficult Days in Mariupol With Forces Fired at From Every Side
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: We Have Offered Russia Every Kind of Exchange to Secure Release of Encircled People in Mariupol
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: The Key Questions in Negotiations With Russia Are the Donbas and Crimea
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Tomorrow He Will Meet US Defence Minister and Secretary of State and Discuss List of Weapons Ukraine Needs
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Situation With Weapons Supply Has Improved, We Need Powerful Heavy Weapons
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Blinken Will Travel to Ukraine Sunday
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: US Mins of Defense Will Travel to Ukraine
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: We Are Not Prepared to Try to Break Mariupol Blockade by Force
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: I Must Meet Russia’s Putin if We Plan to Resolve the War Through Diplomacy
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Top US Diplomat, Defense Secretary to Visit to Kyiv on Sunday
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Top US Envoy Blinken to Visit Ukraine Sunday
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Likelihood of Further Peace Talks in Turkey Depend on Putin
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Saturday’s Missile Strikes in Odesa Killed 8 People, Including 3-Month-Old Child
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: He Is Grateful for Pope’s Stance and Hopes He Visits Ukraine
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy, Asked if Russia Could Use Nuclear Weapons: It Could but He Doesn’t Want to Believe It Would
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy, Asked About US Official Visit on Sunday: We Expect Concrete Things- Weapons
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: Ukraine Wants US to Be One of Its Security Guarantors
*Ukraine President Zelenskiy: He Expects US to Talk to Germany About It Providing Ukraine With Weapons
 
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Blackjack Davy

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Rroff said:
The reason why tanks aren't obsolete is that they do something useful in war and there isn't anything else that does it as well. Their vulnerabilities don't negate the fact that there isn't a replacement for them, so the emphasis (except in Russia, apparently), is on mitigating the vulnerabilities of tanks rather than on replacing tanks.
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They're mobile artillery platforms which the russians have used extensively in chechnya, syria and lately ukraine, their mistake in kyiv was extended supply lines and a narrow string of vehicles that got bogged down, on a massed front in the east they're harder for ukrainians to take out and and theres a long border with lots of crossing points
 

supafly

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It's difficult reading this stuff day after day but I like to stay informed. What is most difficult to understand is the west's reluctance to do the right thing. Why are we ok to supply Ukraine with weapons, but fearful of intervening against seemingly pure evil?
 

dowie

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bingham67 said:
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That's quite a big move, not necessarily the most likely outcome but it's possible and would be hilarious if as a result of this Russia loses both Crimea/Svestapol & their base in the Med as a result of Assad being overthrown on top of Sweden and Finland being NATO members...

No Mediterranean base, no Black sea base, approach to St Petersberg in the Baltics completed surrounded by NATO... They'd have their arctic bases and the far east! :D

Sankari said:
Russian soldiers who looted Ukraine are now getting looted by their own government.

laTJd18.jpeg

:p
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I think a lot of the rest was stolen by postal workers in Belarus and Russia too.

In other news, more fires in Russa


Two generals were killed in that Kherson attack and a third was injured:


Also, some water gates seem to have failed causing flooding in an area near the Ukrainian border:

 
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Steven Rimmington

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Somewhat related and current to the above relationship with Turkey-Russia, these huge resorts in Turkey like Antalya are packed with russian tourists. I can see Turkey has not banned russian air travel but russian economy is a mess. I bet resorts heavily reliant on Russian tourism are tanking!
 

Mr Jack

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supafly said:
It's difficult reading this stuff day after day but I like to stay informed. What is most difficult to understand is the west's reluctance to do the right thing. Why are we ok to supply Ukraine with weapons, but fearful of intervening against seemingly pure evil?
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Because when push comes to shove governments don't care all that much about evil. Each country looks out for itself first. Ukraine crushed under the Russian boot is a better outcome for Britain/Germany/France/America/Whoever than seeing their cities bombed or their soldiers dying in their thousands. They will not risk a small chance of the latter to prevent the former.

That's what we vote for in democracies. The public want politicians that put their country first.
 
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