Under a dealer warranty, should injectors count as part of the engine?

[GarethSouthgate]

That is ridiculous though, how do you guarantee 14 year old high mileage parts for even a year till MOT, you cannot. Anyone with half a brain that's ever taken apart/fixed ANYTHING knows that.

So you're saying I can buy something, go out and trash it and repeatedly take it back/or them to court and say poor me boo hoo your problem.

Same with rust, it can just appear in a week or a month and be hiding where you can't see it for further time and just write the car off, you could buy it and live by the sea for example where the car wasn't stored before, or drive it in **** weather on salted roads, still isn't the car or the dealers fault? See my point? That is so 1 sided it's ridiculous. You could literally ruin a small family business for example doing that ****.

It's 'fit for purpose', that's how they work it out and also they do take into account the age.

So you can't claim for a £10 repair on a £2000 20 year old car for example. There is an element of reasonableness to it.

If you buy from a dealer you have rights to expect the car to be fit for propose and as advertised.

 

[Removed User 345456]

It's 'fit for purpose', that's how they work it out and also they do take into account the age.

So you can't claim for a £10 repair on a £2000 20 year old car for example. There is an element of reasonableness to it.

It can never be guaranteed though, it's old asf and high mileage, it simply is what it is. That's blatantly why he offered a £300 good will gesture word of mouth warranty and not a real one.

Which was my point initially when I first posted about the nearly £2k with the Vat for a set of injectors, then it'll turn out it's the fuel pressure regulator or something else and it goes on and on and suddenly you're into stupid amounts of cost.

That's why I said in this situation they'll just give him his money back.

Then I had to explain to the others why, when it's very simple/obvious. Hence why I said they wouldn't just fit more 2nd hand 14 year old high mileage parts, or you'll be taking them to court/sueing them every bloody month forever at that rate! Ruining some guys reputation and business putting his livelihood at risk and putting him in debt, all for a 2-3k 14 year old high mileage car.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Which was my point initially when I first posted about the nearly £2k with the Vat for a set of injectors, then it'll turn out it's the fuel pressure regulator or something else and it goes on and on and suddenly you're into stupid amounts of cost.

That's why I said in this situation they'll just give him his money back.

Then I had to explain to the others why, when it's very simple/obvious. Hence why I said they wouldn't just fit more 2nd hand 14 year old high mileage parts, or you'll be taking them to court/sueing them every bloody month forever at that rate! Ruining some guys reputation and business putting his livelihood at risk and putting him in debt, all for a 2-3k 14 year old high mileage car.

That's the risk you take selling 14 year old cars, nobody is forcing them to sell 14 year old cars

 

[Removed User 345456]

That's the risk you take selling 14 year old cars, nobody is forcing them to sell 14 year old cars

Nobody is forcing people to buy them and go all poor me/expect something for nothing forever/I can break this and it's your fault regardless/sue culture either - I'm not saying in this situation the OP caused it, but as you say you COULD do damage and still **** the dealer for it. Which is wrong regardless of 'the law'

If it was 5-10 years old year fair enough, but 3/4's way to 20 years and high mileage/known badly made engine with know faults/normal wear and tear like injectors/bushings/ball joints/arms/interior wear/driveline related parts/list is endless, then no way will this stand up in court.

 

[JonRGV250]

Most of these mickey mouse warranties are useless.
We won't ever entertain any customer coming in saying they've got a warranty and can we look at the problem.
Nope, not ever.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Most of these mickey mouse warranties are useless.
We won't ever entertain any customer coming in saying they've got a warranty and can we look at the problem.
Nope, not ever.

As you're an MOT tester, I'm sure you get my points, a part has failed that is general wear and tear/could go anytime at this age/mileage, to the point it's just a servicable item, there is no way you can guarantee it'll last another year, nor should you have to replace them with new before selling, otherwise it becomes a hell of an expensive 2nd hand old high mileage car, law or not that is ridiculous to be able to claim against someone like that.

As you know, "an MOT is only valid till you drive out the door" after that anything could happen, operate error or age related/abuse etc etc...

People literally expect something for nothing with everything.

If it was only 5-10 years old from a main dealer with a warranty package and low mileage, sure I get it. But not 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage, you'd need a crystal ball to predict things like injectors going randomly, it'd be as daft as saying you expected the cam's to have been inspected and the piston/rods/crankshaft...

 

[Kenai]

Nobody is forcing people to buy them and go all poor me/expect something for nothing forever/I can break this and it's your fault regardless/sue culture either - I'm not saying in this situation the OP caused it, but as you say you COULD do damage and still **** the dealer for it. Which is wrong regardless of 'the law'

You should probably go and do a bit of reading up on what consumer rights actually apply to used car sales and how they vary over time. They don't give a buyer carte blanche to damage cars and screw over dealers but within 6 months of sale they do put the responsibility on the dealer to prove a fault wasn't present at point of sale. For something like an injector, they could choose to argue the toss but it'll probably be difficult to prove and so it would probably be easier to simply repair it with a second hand injector. They don't then get held to another 6 month period on that injector necessarily, it's not like having to offer a parts warranty on a purchased part.

Ultimately though, if people don't like the rights afforded to consumers by law, then running a business selling things to people is probably not for them.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Poor dealer having to work within the law cry me a river wah wah wah etc

Poor general public buying a high mileage nearly 20 year old cars knowing full well they're old/high mileage... Expecting something for nothing for the entirety of the ownership, blame everyone else for wear and tear servicable items that can fail at anytime due to age/mileage wah wah wah. How pathetic.

You have NO idea about cars clearly. Do you get the crankshaft inspected for scoring before you buy your used cars and get them to rehone the bores 'just incase it don't get to next MOT m9' Grow up with your sue culture woke nonsense.

 

[Noughtboy]

Did you purchase any of the car history checks from the online data services before purchasing the car?

We had it in the book. All standard stuff (oil, filters, brakes, tyres) apart from a NO sensor and an low fuel pressure sensor in 2017...which leads me to believe this is a potential culprit.

 

[JonRGV250]

As you're an MOT tester, I'm sure you get my points, a part has failed that is general wear and tear/could go anytime at this age/mileage, to the point it's just a servicable item, there is no way you can guarantee it'll last another year, nor should you have to replace them with new before selling, otherwise it becomes a hell of an expensive 2nd hand old high mileage car, law or not that is ridiculous to be able to claim against someone like that.

As you know, "an MOT is only valid till you drive out the door" after that anything could happen, operate error or age related/abuse etc etc...

People literally expect something for nothing with everything.

If it was only 5-10 years old from a main dealer with a warranty package and low mileage, sure I get it. But not 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage, you'd need a crystal ball to predict things like injectors going randomly, it'd be as daft as saying you expected the cam's to have been inspected and the piston/rods/crankshaft...

Yup to all of that.
It absolutely staggers me how reliable people think cars are.
The worst are people who buy say 10-15 year old S classes, A8's, 7 series etc for little money and feel all chuffed with themselves because in their eyes it's still a £80K car..
until it goes wrong, and boy they go very very wrong a lot.
Like why the **** did they think the car wa so cheap in the first place?

 

[tom_e]

Poor general public buying a high mileage nearly 20 year old cars knowing full well they're old/high mileage... Expecting something for nothing for the entirety of the ownership, blame everyone else for wear and tear servicable items that can fail at anytime due to age/mileage wah wah wah. How pathetic.

You have NO idea about cars clearly. Do you get the crankshaft inspected for scoring before you buy your used cars and get them to rehone the bores 'just incase it don't get to next MOT m9' Grow up with your sue culture woke nonsense.

No one is expecting a never ending stream of repairs but it's not unreasonable for a dealer to fulfil their legal obligations.

In this case the issues were raised within that timeframe and therefore weakly hiding behind "not covered by the back of a fag packet warranty" is a **** move.

Don't want to deal with things like consumer rights then don't sell cars as a business and let people buy private in which case sold as seen is expected and reasonable because the car itself is generally a chunk cheaper.

You can rant all you want about us being entitled, woke, children, whatever but it doesn't change the fact that if you want to sell as a business then there are downsides for you when something goes wrong.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Nobody is forcing people to buy them and go all poor me/expect something for nothing forever/I can break this and it's your fault regardless/sue culture either - I'm not saying in this situation the OP caused it, but as you say you COULD do damage and still **** the dealer for it. Which is wrong regardless of 'the law'

If it was 5-10 years old year fair enough, but 3/4's way to 20 years and high mileage/known badly made engine with know faults/normal wear and tear like injectors/bushings/ball joints/arms/interior wear/driveline related parts/list is endless, then no way will this stand up in court.

Again though, the law is the law, if you don't want to fall foul of it then work in a different industry?

Like I said, there is a reasonableness part to it. You can't expect the 20yr old car to be the same as a 2 month old one.

Anyway this is just going to go round in circles.

There are some grey areas like it has to be clear (or as close to) that the issue was there when you bought it.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Yup to all of that.
It absolutely staggers me how reliable people think cars are.
The worst are people who buy say 10-15 year old S classes, A8's, 7 series etc for little money and feel all chuffed with themselves because in their eyes it's still a £80K car..
until it goes wrong, and boy they go very very wrong a lot.
Like why the **** did they think the car wa so cheap in the first place?

I knew you'd get it, too many sue culture poor me woke 'but it's teh law m9' "I can make money out of this" type scumbags, clearly many on this thread!

Expect something for nothing, imagine having a classic fast car and just ******* the engine completely from ragging it and the brakes, all whilst putting 95 octane in it, then going back to one of these dealers and stinging them for 50k on a rebuilt engine... Absolute scum. "BuT iT's ThE lAw!" **** right off!

Yeah it is absolutely mental people think they buy a car, especially an expensive one and it just requires zero maintenance then suddenly it's Jon the MOT man's fault...

But remember @JonRGV250 you should have known xyz 14 year old part was going to fail a week/month/6 months ago when you did my MOT, why didn't YOU fix it, lets sue Jon

 

[OldKitMan]

Yeah good luck with proving you haven't caused the damage.

You could go over-rev the engine/snap the shafts/drive like an absolute helmet with zero consideration ragging it from cold, leave the bonnet up, the fuel rail cover/rocker cover off etc etc damaging all sorts, and it'd be your fault and there's no way you could prove it wasn't!

So no, there is no way it's 'that' simple just because you think you can take someone to court over anything. You have to prove the damage is a result of them directly, which it ISN'T, it's simply an old high mileage car!

If a problem is found after 30 days, but within six months of purchase, you can request a repair or a replacement vehicle. The onus is on the seller of the car to prove the fault wasn’t present when the car was sold; if they can, and you’re likely to have known about it, you won’t get a refund.

So - it's not up to the buyer to prove they haven't caused the damage. You've got your burden of proof the wrong way round which is a significant point.

 

[Noughtboy]

Poor general public buying a high mileage nearly 20 year old cars knowing full well they're old/high mileage... Expecting something for nothing for the entirety of the ownership, blame everyone else for wear and tear servicable items that can fail at anytime due to age/mileage wah wah wah. How pathetic.

You have NO idea about cars clearly. Do you get the crankshaft inspected for scoring before you buy your used cars and get them to rehone the bores 'just incase it don't get to next MOT m9' Grow up with your sue culture woke nonsense.

Firstly, it is not a HIGH mileage car. Cars can easily last 150k miles or longer if looked after. I went over this car with a fine tooth comb, I checked its service history, it's MOT history and drove it checking things like tyres, gearbox, drive shaft etc etc.
However, I failed to check if the windscreen was leaking water into the cabin. My bad! Everything started after that.

The reason we bought from a dealer was the protection provided by the law otherwise I would have gone private and paid a couple of grand cheaper to cover things like this. I figured his warranty was not with a company but himself with the stamp and no paperwork. The enquiry was merely to head him off at the pass with regards to the injectors not forming part of the engine. As I mentioned, he has been easyish to deal with apart from things taking a week here or there. I wouldn't necessarily invite him to a party but we are still friendly.

But now we are getting to the stage where it isn't likely to be a spark plug or an injector I feel that it is time he starts to make good on a "Warranty" he stamped (and bear in mind this was notified around 9 weeks into ownership) or issue some sort of refund on the car for me to cover the costs.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Again though, the law is the law, if you don't want to fall foul of it then work in a different industry?

Like I said, there is a reasonableness part to it. You can't expect the 20yr old car to be the same as a 2 month old one.

Anyway this is just going to go round in circles.

I'm agreeing with you that there is variables sure, but anything from 5 years to 10 really is taking the ****, especially if it's done loads of daily commute miles.

I just think in this situation IF you can screw someone over for something 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage via natural wear and tear or your own damage and sue them/claim regardless who's to blame, that is madness. It'd be like me buying a 14 year old motherboard and expecting the caps to last forever.

 

[Kenai]

The worst are people who buy say 10-15 year old S classes, A8's, 7 series etc for little money and feel all chuffed with themselves because in their eyes it's still a £80K car..
until it goes wrong, and boy they go very very wrong a lot.

Hmmm... arguably worse are the people who choose to sell 10-15 year old S classes, A8s and 7 series etc for little money as their business and are all chuffed with themselves and the money they're making until it goes wrong and they realise that they can't just wash their hands of it and shout 'sold as seen' at their customers

 

[OldKitMan]

I'm agreeing with you that there is variables sure, but anything from 5 years to 10 really is taking the ****, especially if it's done loads of daily commute miles.

I just think in this situation IF you can screw someone over for something 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage via natural wear and tear or your own damage and sue them/claim regardless who's to blame, that is madness. It'd be like me buying a 14 year old motherboard and expecting the caps to last forever.

The dealer chose to retail that and with that comes obligations, if they don't want to accept those obligations then they should choose to not retail cars of that age.

 

[Removed User 345456]

If a problem is found after 30 days, but within six months of purchase, you can request a repair or a replacement vehicle. The onus is on the seller of the car to prove the fault wasn’t present when the car was sold; if they can, and you’re likely to have known about it, you won’t get a refund.

So - it's not up to the buyer to prove they haven't caused the damage. You've got your burden of proof the wrong way round which is a significant point.

No you don't get it, I'm saying an owner can damage something themselves and still get away with blagging it under this law - which is scumbaggery and wrong!
I also said that things wear out naturally, things like injectors are serviceable parts, and well documented to be so, especially given the OP's mileage/age of car.

They were working when he bought them, NO-ONE takes out injectors out of a 14 year old car and flow tests their entire fleet. Ridiculous. So yes they can fail whenever. That doesn't mean anything shady has gone on by the seller. That's my point, it is LITERALLY wear and tear.

To then go crying back and expect it fixed, law or not on something 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage, is just being tight and scummy. The End.

 

[Kenai]

I just think in this situation IF you can screw someone over for something 3/4's way to 20 years old and high mileage via natural wear and tear or your own damage and sue them/claim regardless who's to blame, that is madness.

Well you can't do that, so you can stop crying about it, you've just invented that nonsense scenario in your head.