Poll: United States Grand Prix 2017, Austin - Race 17/20

[Glaucus]

Yes, they are different events I am fully aware of that. However, again its not consistent as if you got but the letter of the rule back you need to leave a car width of space.

The other thing a number of the drivers including Hamilton cut the corners and no lap time was taken away, it can't be a constant moving goal.

far from it, it is pretty consistent.

if you are on your own, then going off track essentially never gets a penalty. Unless you do it lap after lap, then you will be told and then if you ignore it penalized.

being pushed wide off track by someone, with no other option but hitting the car, doesn't result in punishment.

choosing like ver did, to go off track on purpose whilst overtaking when not even being squeezed will result in punishment.

as for qualifying in the drivers briefing, they say which corners they will and won't investigate.

 

[Junglist]

Sainz had a great weekend. Hopefully the competition between him and Hulkenburg will sharpen both of them up. Or perhaps Sainz will take Hulkenburg to school and show why no top team ever signed him when they've had many chances to.

I think Sainz will expose Nico. I rate Sainz just as good as MV, if i'm being honest.

 

[MM-Seat]

I think Sainz will expose Nico. I rate Sainz just as good as MV, if i'm being honest.

Agreed. Sainz is a top talent along with Ocon and Verstappen.

 

[Junglist]

Do people really think the penalty was harsh?

https://twitter.com/mauromontagnoli/status/922426549613285388

It's pretty clear cut if you ask me. You cut the corner and gain a position then you give it back.

 

[Jono8]

Do people really think the penalty was harsh?

https://twitter.com/mauromontagnoli/status/922426549613285388

It's pretty clear cut if you ask me. You cut the corner and gain a position then you give it back.

It is clear cut on its own but Max's protestation is because the rules are not applied consistently.

Did any of these (most pertinently, the Sainz one) get penalties? No is the answer.

 

[Junglist]

It is clear cut on its own but Max's protestation is because the rules are not applied consistently.

Did any of these (most pertinently, the Sainz one) get penalties? No is the answer.

Now I might be forgetting the race so forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Sainz give the position back after that move and got him at the next corner?

Regarding Hamilton, the stewards decided that going on the OUTSIDE of a corner wouldn't offer an advantage as you would risk going over marbles. Pretty sure they said it was OK during qually. - I'll try and find where I read that.

Bottas... Was battling with Riccardo and lost the position at that point. He is also going a long way around - did he gain an advantage?

The picture with Vettel... he is on a straight - is he gaining an advantage there?

Max literally CUT a corner on the inside which allowed him to carry more speed. He passed a car with all 4 wheels past the white line.

How on earth people can't see that him cutting the track at that corner whilst battling with another driver gave him an advantage I'll never know.


Summed up nicely by Hamilton.
https://twitter.com/FiftyBuckss/status/922231651710664706

 

[Jono8]

Now I might be forgetting the race so forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Sainz give the position back after that move and got him at the next corner?

Regarding Hamilton, the stewards decided that going on the OUTSIDE of a corner wouldn't offer an advantage as you would risk going over marbles. Pretty sure they said it was OK during qually. - I'll try and find where I read that.

Bottas... Was battling with Riccardo and lost the position at that point. He is also going a long way around - did he gain an advantage?

The picture with Vettel... he is on a straight - is he gaining an advantage there?

Max literally CUT a corner on the inside which allowed him to carry more speed. He passed a car with all 4 wheels past the white line.

How on earth people can't see that him cutting the track at that corner whilst battling with another driver gave him an advantage I'll never know.


Summed up nicely by Hamilton.
https://twitter.com/FiftyBuckss/status/922231651710664706

Vettel likely only made the pass stick on Hamilton because he went of track.

I don't remember saint handing that place back.

What Hamilton said was correct yes. Max did go off track , no one is disputing that, not even Max. The issue is that there were countless other times in the race where cars went off track and gained some sort of advantage that went unpunished...

 

[mattyg]

Penalising only the driver who gained an advantage is pretty consistent if you ask me.

Now I might be forgetting the race so forgive me if I am wrong but didn't Sainz give the position back after that move and got him at the next corner?

Regarding Hamilton, the stewards decided that going on the OUTSIDE of a corner wouldn't offer an advantage as you would risk going over marbles. Pretty sure they said it was OK during qually. - I'll try and find where I read that.

Bottas... Was battling with Riccardo and lost the position at that point. He is also going a long way around - did he gain an advantage?

The picture with Vettel... he is on a straight - is he gaining an advantage there?

Max literally CUT a corner on the inside which allowed him to carry more speed. He passed a car with all 4 wheels past the white line.

How on earth people can't see that him cutting the track at that corner whilst battling with another driver gave him an advantage I'll never know.


Summed up nicely by Hamilton.
https://twitter.com/FiftyBuckss/status/922231651710664706

If hamilton had done that every lap he'd have lapped himself

 

[Junglist]

Eh? Vettel was ahead leaving the first turn.

Is that the overtake you mean? (0:30-0:37) He comes out behind Sainz at that corner... Why would you punish someone for not gaining an advantage?

 

[MM-Seat]

It is clear cut on its own but Max's protestation is because the rules are not applied consistently.

Did any of these (most pertinently, the Sainz one) get penalties? No is the answer.

Did any of those gain track position?

 

[mattyg]

Did any of those gain track position?

Like I hinted at above. if max gained an advantage by taking a short cut. Then everytime they took the short cut they gained an advantage. Whether it was a place or a tenth catching the next car. F1 teams spend millions on getting a tenth.

 

[MM-Seat]

Like I hinted at above. if max gained an advantage by taking a short cut. Then everytime they took the short cut they gained an advantage. Whether it was a place or a tenth catching the next car. F1 teams spend millions on getting a tenth.

Fair enough but, what you are suggesting promotes not taking a chance on overtaking. Not something a lot of us want to see in F1

 

[mattyg]

Fair enough but, what you are suggesting promotes not taking a chance on overtaking. Not something a lot of us want to see in F1

Within the track limits though.

To be honest and I'm gutted for max, Especially as I bet he could have still made the pass but 18" over and still made it.

 

[MM-Seat]

Within the track limits though.

To be honest and I'm gutted for max, Especially as I bet he could have still made the pass but 18" over and still made it.

Yeah, it would have capped off a stunning drive and he is surely one of the stars of the future. It will be interesting to see how Red Bull build the team around him after Horner's comments last week. Also interesting to see where Riccarido will end up now it looks as though RBR have consigned themselves to loose him.

 

[Jono8]

Like I hinted at above. if max gained an advantage by taking a short cut. Then everytime they took the short cut they gained an advantage. Whether it was a place or a tenth catching the next car. F1 teams spend millions on getting a tenth.

Exactly.

 

[Steeps]

The first corner with Vet keeping Ham behind, Vet unwound his wheel early so he could get on the power sooner and ran wide on the corner with his foot planted so he could keep his speed up through the next few corners. If he had to obey track limits he wouldn't have been on the power so soon and Ham could potentially have overtaken him sooner as he would be going slower. Being able to take a wider line on a corner means you can take it faster just as much as cutting a corner so only punishing one driver through the whole race is a joke. Vet even cuts the same corner himself when Ham does overtake him to try and keep the gap low for the next few corners to try and get DRS.

 

[Big Spender]

Torro Rosso have confirmed itll be Hartley and Gasly for Mexico this week

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...sso-confirm-hartley-and-gasly-for-mexico.html

 

[Armageus]

Poll added

 

[Mr Jack]

One of the better races of the season. 8/10 for me. It was a shame about Max and a bigger shame about Riccardo but overall it was still a good race with action most of the time and some real overtakes.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Eh? Vettel was ahead leaving the first turn.

Is that the overtake you mean? (0:30-0:37) He comes out behind Sainz at that corner... Why would you punish someone for not gaining an advantage?

The only way he was able to get as close to Perez as quickly as he did was via cutting corners, likewise he actually made the pass going fast enough to require leaving the track on exit. If he was going slowly enough to stay on track then maybe Perez comes back at him, or if he braked earlier then maybe he wouldn't have entered the corner as he did. It was because he felt safe going wide on exit that he had no problem going up the inside as fast as he did.

Likewise it doesn't really matter if Vettel was ahead into the corner, because the corner is the braking zone, the corner and the exit. As with Sainz, if he brakes earlier or goes slower in the corner to make sure he doesn't leave the track on exit then maybe he maybe Hamilton hangs it around on the outside.

When you're safe to be unpunished going wide on exit, it means you can dive bomb the inside, brake later, etc. Ricciardo was the same, he absolutely dive bombed Bottas, Bottas had to take avoiding action to prevent being hit as Ricciardo took the corner in such a way he had zero chance to stay on track. In doing this Bottas was slowed down significantly and as Ricciardo floored it on exit Bottas is defending a guy who only got into that position by feeling safe about leaving the track and flooring it.

All these things went unpunished and Max's was punished.

Same way there were worse collisions but Ericsson got punished for a 'home team' car turning in on a car already there and which had every right to be there. FIA are inconsistent with penalties and are somewhat arbitrary with them.

F1 is political, big teams enjoy their power and the marketing side means a home team is less likely to be punished, as someone is more likely to be punished for an incident with a home team. F1 desperately needs professional stewards, a larger team of people with a more professional application of the rules. This won't happen while the big teams continue to get favourable results and while they hold the power to stop a change in the way things are done.