Universal basic income

4K8KW10 said:
The problem in some countries is that people work extremely hard, and they are still poor and can't afford basic and simple services, like good healthcare or education.
The rich in those countries, meanwhile, enjoy extremely high and unnaturally high profits.

People NEVER get rich when they work for someone else.
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It's always been like this though. Work for someone else and you will always be bottom/middle class.
 
Dolph said:
Places like the ussr were much more equal, because they had the poverty and nothing else... Unless of course you were tied into the party.
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The USSR fell because of its isolation from the rest of the world. The USSR and its closest satellites' economies were so tightly glued to each other, that when some countries decided to go out of the Union, the USSR collapsed.
 
4K8KW10 said:
People NEVER get rich when they work for someone else.
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mrbell1984 said:
It's always been like this though. Work for someone else and you will always be bottom/middle class.
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While true historically, this hasn’t necessarily been the case since the 1970s (in the US and UK especially).

Where the top percentiles used to accumulate wealth through land before the industrial revolution and then through more sophisticated financial instruments and investments after it, there is now a class of “super managers” within the top percentiles where the majority of their income comes from salary rather than capital gains and rents.
 
4K8KW10 said:
The USSR fell because of its isolation from the rest of the world. The USSR and its closest satellites' economies were so tightly glued to each other, that when some countries decided to go out of the Union, the USSR collapsed.
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The deaths and human rights abuses in the ussr occurred long before countries started to leave.
 
explicit4u said:
They'd be keeping a significant portion of it though, more than enough to justify the work they've put in. It's not like someone earning millions a year is gonna be taxed down £100k a year, they're still earning ridiculous sums of money.
Not to mention people keep assuming that money is the only incentive that people have to come up with new ideas and innovate, it's just one of many reasons people do what they do.

Or buying extra houses to rent out and take advantage of people who cannot afford deposits. Trickle down economics benefits the rich.
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What do you think "keeping" their money means? They're not hoarding massive stockpiles of gold bricks, for the most part. Even if they don't take an active interest in investment, and just stuff their wealth into a bank account, the bank will invest it. The money is getting put to work either way.

What's wrong with people buying houses to rent out? If people didn't do that, what would people who can't afford a deposit do? Live with mum and dad into their thirties? If we were to financially disincentivise or outright ban the practice of buy-to-let, do you think that would actually benefit tenants in any way? You do anything like that, you just reduce the supply of rental properties, which would just push the price up further still.

As for trickle-down economics... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZPDpk8NA-g
 
Dolph said:
The deaths and human rights abuses in the ussr occurred long before countries started to leave.
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Deaths and human right abuses happen right now in the whole capitalist world and no one says anything about it.

The people in the East of Europe were actually quite wealthy for their time, in my country, speciffically, people could afford summer vacation on the Sea every summer, everyone could have their own apartment in a new building, everyone could have a car, and the needed house appliances.
Now, it's the wider spread poverty when the majority works on the minimum wage, like 250 euros or something. And this money isn't enough for anything. It can't cover someone's medicines and food, for the whole part.

My theory is that Communism for the most part is extremely good for the humanrace but when a given country is in Communism, the evil side begins to fight strongly against it, and does the aforementioned by you damages.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Deaths and human right abuses happen right now in the whole capitalist world and no one says anything about it.

The people in the East of Europe were actually quite wealthy for their time, in my country, speciffically, people could afford summer vacation on the Sea every summer, everyone could have their own apartment in a new building, everyone could have a car, and the needed house appliances.
Now, it's the wider spread poverty when the majority works on the minimum wage, like 250 euros or something. And this money isn't enough for anything. It can't cover someone's medicines and food, for the whole part.

My theory is that Communism for the most part is extremely good for the humanrace but when a given country is in Communism, the evil side begins to fight strongly against it, and does the aforementioned by you damages.
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Capitalism does not have anything on communism when it comes to abusing your own people, even the Nazis couldn't get close (circa 25 million deaths for the nazis, vs 85 to 100 million for communism).

But communism is like a religion to some people, facts and history either doesn't matter or gets rewritten to excuse what happened.
 
Dolph said:
Capitalism does not have anything on communism when it comes to abusing your own people, even the Nazis couldn't get close (circa 25 million deaths for the nazis, vs 85 to 100 million for communism).

But communism is like a religion to some people, facts and history either doesn't matter or gets rewritten to excuse what happened.
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The only people who had problems were those who fought in some way against the system. Everyone else were much happier. Actually, no one is as happy right now.
 
IMO i don't think capitalism or socialism/communism can adequately describe the "system" that we should be heading towards with future autonomy.

The closest thing i can imagine to it would be (I know its cringy) but a star trek esque society, in which money holds no value... People work for the betterment of human society as a whole, all needs and wants are available.

Obviously we aren't talking the next 50 years here..

I especially like data's comment about television not lasting much past the 2040's, for some reason i actually believe that is possible in its current form at least :D

 
terley said:
IMO i don't think capitalism or socialism/communism can adequate describe the "system" that we should be heading towards with future autonomy.

The closest thing i can imagine to it would be (I know its cringy) but a star trek esque society, in which money holds no value... People work for the betterment of human society as a whole, all needs and wants are available.

Obviously we aren't talking the next 50 years here..

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It's a lovely idea, but the reason money holds no value is because replicators make resources infinite.
 
Dolph said:
It's a lovely idea, but the reason money holds no value is because replicators make resources infinite.
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True :P, we can all have pipe-dreams eh, perhaps we create a dyson-sphere and harness seemingly unlimited energy.. then find a way to create matter and arrange it willingly? haha
 
4K8KW10 said:
The only people who had problems were those who fought in some way against the system. Everyone else were much happier. Actually, no one is as happy right now.
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Listen to yourself. People suffered because they didn't buy into the socialist ideology? Even if that's true, you're somehow okay with that? "Conform or die", right?

But even that isn't true. There were plenty of true believers who got swept up in Stalin's purges, for example.
 
SlyReaper said:
Listen to yourself. People suffered because they didn't buy into the socialist ideology? Even if that's true, you're somehow okay with that? "Conform or die", right?
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No, I have already said that the execution was poor.
People can suffer because of several factors. Like being tired, or wanting higher remunerations. Some people suffered because they were greedy to become the future capitalists.

Which is a better motivation for the people - to work for the country with a true purpose and great idea, or to be just the next individual who works for a greedy oligarch capitalist?
 
4K8KW10 said:
No, I have already said that the execution was poor.
People can suffer because of several factors. Like being tired, or wanting higher remunerations. Some people suffered because they were greedy to become the future capitalists.

Which is a better motivation for the people - to work for the country with a true purpose and great idea, or to be just the next individual who works for a greedy oligarch capitalist?
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With your approval of 85 million plus deaths for the cause, I am pretty sure you are not a rational person whose opinion should be considered.
 
4K8KW10 said:
No, I have already said that the execution was poor.
People can suffer because of several factors. Like being tired, or wanting higher remunerations. Some people suffered because they were greedy to become the future capitalists.

Which is a better motivation for the people - to work for the country with a true purpose and great idea, or to be just the next individual who works for a greedy oligarch capitalist?
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They wanted higher remunerations? They wanted enough food so as not to watch their children starve in front of them? What monsters!
 
Dolph said:
With your approval of 85 million plus deaths for the cause, I am pretty sure you are not a rational person whose opinion should be considered.
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Because you didn't understand that I can't speak about the USSR. I am not familiar with their history and the reasons for the mass starvation.

I repeated several times what the situation had been in.... MY COUNTRY!

SlyReaper said:
They wanted higher remunerations? They wanted enough food so as not to watch their children starve in front of them? What monsters!
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4K8KW10 said:
Because you didn't understand that I can't speak about the USSR. I am not familiar with their history and the reasons for the mass starvation.

I repeated several times what the situation had been in.... MY COUNTRY!
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Which country specifically? The 85 to 100 million figure is for communism across the world.

The former eastern block accounts for circa 1 million of those.

Source for the figures is the black book of communism
 
That book is complete rubbish. Looks more like a propaganda by the western special agencies..... and not holding much connection with the reality :rolleyes:

Could you state the source for this "source"?
 
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