US police thread

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omnomnom said:
That Adam Toledo video. Just wow. That's indefensible.
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You clearly have no idea about the limitations of human reactions (especially under stress) which are by now pretty well documented.

I'd like to see your reaction accuracy, in a fair bit under a single second, when a suspect makes a sudden movement in the time between a gun being visible in his hand on the body cam and the first shot being fired by the officer


He was not simply 'doing as he was told' he was making rapid movements with his arms that resulted in the gun ending up on the other side of the fence.


omnomnom said:
Jesus Christ. Police officer asks him to put his hands up...he does as requested and bang shot in the chest. Trust the usuals to defend that. Just wow
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No he doesn't!

At least not in the last seconds of the video released from the police with audio.

(You can see that the cop reaches his left hand up to the video camera to press a button on it to start recording at around 1:13 on the compilation video released. The body worn cameras police use have a 'buffer' of video running at all time hence why there is video before he presses the camera record button but no sound. Pressing the record button records the video in the 'buffer' into the recorded clip which is then saved on the device)

So did you watch the video with the sound off or are you lying?

From about 1:11 onwards....


The cop says "police stop, stop right now... hand, show me your ****ing hand, stop it, stop it" *shot fired* (the suspect has his left hand raised to his left ear and his right hand is shielded from view with a gun being seen in this hand well under a second before the shot was fired by the cop.

If you cant even get basic facts right with the full benefit of hindsight, the ability to review video footage frame by frame repeatedly and with plenty of time to review what you are typing then how can you call these actions 'indefensible'?

Because 'put your hand up' and 'show me your hand' are not the same thing when you are holding a gun down by your leg and raising your arms is likely to be perceived as attempting to bring said weapon to a firing position (the human mind doesn't work quick enough to prevent a situation where the suspects hands can be raised above a a firing position when the actual shot is taken).


'838 milliseconds between gun shown in hand (in a low position held down on his left hand side) and single shot'


Here's some research done on the matter

Reasonableness-and-Reaction-Time.pdf (researchgate.net)

“Suspects” in the research were 30 male and female CJ students, averaging about 22 years old and mostly Caucasians. The test subjects were 24 male volunteers recruited from an active-shooter training class at a regional SWAT conference. They averaged nearly 10 years’ policing experience, with nearly five years on SWAT, and were considered “elite...particularly [in] the use of deadly force.” They averaged about 34 years old and slightly more than half were Caucasian.

Armed with a Glock training pistol that fired marking cartridges, each officer progressed through a series of 10 rooms in an abandoned school, presumably in response to a “generic ‘person with a gun’ call.” In each room, the officer confronted a suspect armed with a similar pistol at a distance of 10 feet. In some cases, the suspect’s gun was at his/her side, pointed at the floor. In others, the gun was pointed at the suspect’s own head in a suicidal pose.

According to prior instruction, one-fifth of the suspects followed the officer’s order to surrender peaceably. The rest, designated as attackers, were told to try to shoot the officer any time they chose “after an initial command to put down the gun was given.” In all cases, officers had their gun up and on target at the outset of the encounter and were instructed to “attempt to shoot first” as soon as they perceived a move to shoot them.

Later, the research team conducted a meticulous frame-by-frame analysis of video recordings of 159 of the shooting exchanges.
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The model examining the average firing times of the suspects revealed that an average of 0.38 seconds elapsed from the initial movement until they fired. The model examining the reaction times of the officers found that they responded in an average of 0.39 seconds
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Yeah defend a grown ass man shooting a 13 year old. Just imagine it was your kid there? Would you have the same defence? Hell no.
 
******** country the USA is, many poorer nations have guns available everywhere but no where near the amount of killings this degenerate country does.
 
I think its pretty annoying and upsetting that any 13 year old should be subjected to an environment that consistently produces either criminality or a needlessly reduced life expectancy from drug usage. Yet, there's no easy solution because the cycle of violence perturbs any attempt to ameliorate everyone involved, entrenching what was already a pretty guarded and suspicious group of people. It's made even harder by vested interests (racists and psychopaths mainly) who are more than happy to see this continue for as lowly a reason as to simply profit off it.

Only a great deal of effort and patience can unset the cycle, i'm just not sure the US has the motivation for either as it's just far easier to embrace comforting behavioural biases, resorting to stubborn antagonism and opposing any attempt at consensus.
 
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B&W said:
Yeah defend a grown ass man shooting a 13 year old. Just imagine it was your kid there? Would you have the same defence? Hell no.
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Stop emoting its pathetic.

A 13 year old with a gun can kill you just as easy as a 33 year old. Age is irrelevant when it comes to whether or not someone big enough to raise and fire a gun is a threat.

and if my 13 year old was out past 2am shooting up passing cars with a gun I would conclude two things

1) I had failed as a parent

and 2) if they were shot in the circumstances seen on the video footage available that it was their fault
 
B&W said:
Yeah defend a grown ass man shooting a 13 year old. Just imagine it was your kid there? Would you have the same defence? Hell no.
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The only victim here is the Police officer who was put in the horrendous position of having to shoot a 13 year old kid or be killed himself, then he's demonised by low testosterone males on the internet for protecting his community, himself, and the law abiding general public.
 
B&W said:
******** country the USA is, many poorer nations have guns available everywhere but no where near the amount of killings this degenerate country does.
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Why are you emoters consistently shown to talk such nonsense?

This is the top 5 list of Gun ownership per capita in civilian hands by country....

1) United States - 120.5 guns per 100 people

2) Falkland Islands - Tiny population with 62.1 guns per 100 people - remote community consisting of a disproportionate amount of farmers armed with guns like shotguns for dealing with wildlife

3) Yemen - 52.8 guns per 100 people, 6.70 homicides per 100,00 people (2013 figures) vs US stated at 5.3 (2017 figures)

There's not much else in the way of 'official' figures but I think its not particularly a safe place when it comes to not being shot

UK GOV said:
Crime
Weapons are readily available. Incidents may not be solely criminal in nature, and may be linked to terrorism or other insecurity. Tribal disputes over land are common, including in major cities, and may involve the use of weapons. The Houthis and other militias involved in the conflict are running extra-judicial detention centres. Take care at all times.
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4) New Caledonia 42.5 guns perp 100 people - Remote Island with a quite rural population and a small population of around 287,800 people

5) Montenegro 39.1 guns per 100 people - still quite rural (hence farmers with guns) 32.85% vs 17.541% (in USA) as per 2019 figures. Doesn't seem like they are doing all that well either when it comes to serious crime either

Montenegro still fails to cope with the gravest forms of crime although it has the largest number of police officers, prosecutors, and judges in the Western Balkans relative to a number of citizens and the highest paid police officers. Montenegro in recent years had twice as many killings than neighboring Serbia per 100.000 citizens
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So the US has far more guns than any other country per capita. Its also not by along way the worst for homicides or deaths at the hand of the police. Plenty of 'poorer' nations do far worse...


Here's a list of homicides by country, USA doesn't do that well but comes in below a lot at 55

Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) - Country Ranking

1 El Salvador 61.80 2017
2 Jamaica 57.00 2017
3 Venezuela 56.30 2016
4 Honduras 41.70 2017
5 Lesotho 41.20 2015
6 Belize 37.90 2017
7 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 36.50 2016
8 South Africa 35.90 2017
9 St. Kitts and Nevis 34.20 2012
10 Trinidad and Tobago 30.90 2015
10 The Bahamas 30.90 2017
12 Brazil 30.50 2017
13 St. Lucia 29.60 2017
14 Guatemala 26.10 2017
15 Dominica 25.70 2017
16 Colombia 24.90 2017
17 Mexico 24.80 2017
18 Central African Republic 19.80 2016
19 Tuvalu 18.60 2012
20 Puerto Rico 18.50 2017
21 Namibia 17.10 2012
22 Botswana 15.00 2010
23 Guyana 14.80 2017
24 Seychelles 12.70 2016
25 Costa Rica 12.30 2017
26 Cabo Verde 11.50 2016
27 Dominican Republic 11.30 2017
28 Grenada 11.10 2017
29 Uganda 11.00 2017
30 Barbados 10.50 2017
31 Antigua and Barbuda 10.30 2012
32 Papua New Guinea 10.00 2010
33 Iraq 9.90 2013
34 Panama 9.70 2017
35 Eswatini 9.50 2017
35 Haiti 9.50 2016
37 Russia 9.20 2017
38 Paraguay 8.90 2016
39 Cayman Islands 8.40 2014
39 Philippines 8.40 2017
41 Uruguay 8.20 2017
42 Peru 7.70 2017
43 Kiribati 7.50 2012
44 Nicaragua 7.40 2016
45 Afghanistan 7.10 2017
46 Zimbabwe 6.70 2012
46 Yemen 6.70 2013
48 Bolivia 6.30 2016
49 Tanzania 6.20 2016
49 Ukraine 6.20 2017
49 Mongolia 6.20 2017
52 Burundi 6.00 2016
53 Ecuador 5.80 2017
54 Suriname 5.50 2017
55 Greenland 5.30 2016
55 United States 5.30 2017


The following countries all have higher death rates at the hands of Law enforcement:


Rates given per 10 million people averaged for one whole year

Venezuela 1830.2
El Salvador 954.5
Syria 831.6
Philippines 532.8 These are just the "Drug personalities who died in anti-drug operations" alone. Actual number is much higher.
Nicaragua 522.7
Jamaica 472.7
Trinidad and Tobago Americas 339.7
Brazil 276.2
Bahamas 275.7
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 181.8
Afghanistan 170.5
Guyana 152.5
Dominican Republic 131.8
South Africa 76.9
Central African Republic 64.4
Lesotho 63.8
Burkina Faso 60.4
Saint Lucia 56.2
Burundi 53.9
Democratic Republic of the Congo 47.8
Iraq 45.1
Nigeria 44.0
Kenya 43.5
Honduras 40.4
Iran 36.6 Low estimate, real figure is likely to be higher
Uruguay 35.1
USA 34.8
 
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Caracus2k said:
Rates given per 10 million people averaged for one whole year

Venezuela 1830.2
El Salvador 954.5
Syria 831.6
Philippines 532.8 These are just the "Drug personalities who died in anti-drug operations" alone. Actual number is much higher.
Nicaragua 522.7
Jamaica 472.7
Trinidad and Tobago Americas 339.7
Brazil 276.2
Bahamas 275.7
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 181.8
Afghanistan 170.5
Guyana 152.5
Dominican Republic 131.8
South Africa 76.9
Central African Republic 64.4
Lesotho 63.8
Burkina Faso 60.4
Saint Lucia 56.2
Burundi 53.9
Democratic Republic of the Congo 47.8
Iraq 45.1
Nigeria 44.0
Kenya 43.5
Honduras 40.4
Iran 36.6 Low estimate, real figure is likely to be higher
Uruguay 35.1
USA 34.8
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That last table is badly filled and there's jokers padding the ranks due to the measurement being per 10m population for one year, giving amusing results from microscopic countries such as...

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines at #10 with a whole... 2 killings
St Lucia is there at #20 with 1 killing

While the USA is #27 with 1146 killings

Wait, that table is ****. I looked at #4 the Philippines and that number is the total killed in 4 years of anti drug operations compared to their population at one point in a year.

Wikipedia is not a good source!
 
omnomnom said:
He was told to put his hands up...he put his hands up.

Be was told to do something...he did that thing and was shot dead within seconds.
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He was told to stop running multiple times too. He was also told to drop it (the gun).

Like the ex (black) cop in the YT videos says, if you do serious crimes there's only going to be 1 of 3 outcomes:

You get shot by another gangbanger
You get shot by the police
You go to prison

This boy was 13 and putting himself at risk of any 1 of the above.

Where were his parents at?
 
I cba quoting the running man as he's been on ignore for sometime. What I will say is don't sit there having an argument of "well he didn't do what the police said" to justify someone being killed then when someone does do exactly that justify the killing. He was told to put his hands up, he put his hands up.
 
omnomnom said:
I cba quoting the running man as he's been on ignore for sometime. What I will say is don't sit there having an argument of "well he didn't do what the police said" to justify someone being killed then when someone does do exactly that justify the killing. He was told to put his hands up, he put his hands up.
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I guess 'lil homicide' (his gang name) should have been clear that he had put the gun down, instead of doing it behind his back so that the policeman couldn't be sure if he had a gun or not.

He was shot literally in the same second he did hold a gun, this is clear from the bodycam footage/timings. Its literally a split second movement.
 
How times have changed the fake news media seem to reporting on the facts and the mainstream seem to be doing everything in their power to turn people against the police. Somethings going to give and I doubt the public will like it either way in the end.
 
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