Violence in Selfridges and "drill music"

[dowie]

Music is a proven way out of that life.

Not really, I'd be quite skeptical of that (the argument is made in the link below too but it seems like quite a reach) I mean I'm sure there are exceptions but you might as well say that buying a lottery ticket is a way out of that life - it might be for a handful but realistically becoming a rapper or drill artist isn't going to work out for 99% of these urban youths.

Drill is simply a genre of music, it's the way you flow, the instruments, and the way a beat is put together, that's not dependant on violence, you can say what you want. The more talented artists/producers do actually rise to the top of the scene, the content of the songs change slightly and that person doesn't have to continue living whatever life they lead when they started making the music.

No one said the style of music itself was dependent on violence, that would make no sense - in theory of course you could have some Will Smith of drill music. In reality, though the culture currently surrounding it is based on gang culture & violence, that's the harmful bit.

The thing is, there is. Urban has been used to describe black youths for years. It's also a derogatory description.

Either you're ignorant of that, which is fine, or you know and are hiding behind a keyboard.

How is it derogatory?

That would seem to be news for this UK charity: https://twitter.com/urbanyouth_org?lang=en

and this university: https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-eve...hat-criminalising-it-does-more-harm-than-good

and this local authority: https://cig.hounslow.gov.uk/kb5/hounslow/community/service.page?id=BKQjIxDZmr4

Or perhaps you're just making things up! It's quite bemusing how a couple of posters in here are so keen on trying to get in some sort of straw man attack.

 

[dlockers]

How can you have a discussion on black knife crime when the first sentence is already blaming the kids involved?

 

[Janesy B]

The white bloke seems quite agitated, maybe he started the altercation.

 

[Nitefly]

lol what a bizarre conversation on ‘urban youth’. It’s two words, commonly used, that make complete sense used together without any background knowledge required.

Urban youth: young adults from urban areas.

Jeez.

 

[dlockers]

lol what a bizarre conversation on ‘urban youth’. It’s two words, commonly used, that make complete sense used together without any background knowledge required.

Urban youth: young adults from urban areas.

Jeez.

Seems odd @dowie felt the need to be obtuse when I asked. I've never referred to anyone as "urban" or "rural" in my introduction to a topic. I queried whether it was meant to mean something specific. The rural old!

 

[Janesy B]

Unconfirmed. OP unwilling/unable to give a definition? Please keep on topic. This thread is about calling out black boys for fighting.

The OP has decided the fight was caused because the kids listen to drill music and they're black, so not much room for discussion really.

 

[Nitefly]

Seems odd @dowie felt the need to be obtuse when I asked. I've never referred to anyone as "urban" or "rural" in my introduction to a topic. I queried whether it was meant to mean something specific. The rural old!

If blue was pink, then there is no doubt dowie could argue to the death that it’s green ( ), but on this occasion the confusion sits with you.

The ‘rural elderly’ would also work fine.

 

[dlockers]

If blue was pink, then there is no doubt dowie could argue to the death that it’s green ( ), but on this occasion the confusion sits with you.

The ‘rural elderly’ would also work fine.

By this definition I am an urban youth, does that mean these are also my antics?

 

[Efour]

Lol it is brilliant far more interesting than the story.

Selfridge also doing weddings soon.. lol

As we all know English words and phrases have a zillion different meanings and connotations depending on context and meaning...

 

[Dis86]

Dowie said it meant an elderly person living in the countryside?

That's called being facetious. Another new word for you. That's 3 in one day!

 

[i-bert]

Any reason why it's this article in particular and not the countless articles of white boys getting in drunken scraps?

Why not make your own thread about an article you find interesting?

 

[explicit4u]

Not really, I'd be quite skeptical of that (the argument is made in the link below too but it seems like quite a reach) I mean I'm sure there are exceptions but you might as well say that buying a lottery ticket is a way out of that life - it might be for a handful but realistically becoming a rapper or drill artist isn't going to work out for 99% of these urban youths.

Any reason why you doubt it?

Obviously it isn't the only path out they can take, and I'm not trying to say they can all be successful rappers. But there's a lot of creativity going on to make a drill song and accompanying video, like the guardian article in the op mentions, it's more than just rappers, you're providing valuable roles and skills that can get these kids started on a career path (videographers, producers, talent management, rappers, song writers, graphic designers, social media managers etc.).

No one said the style of music itself was dependent on violence, that would make no sense - in theory of course you could have some Will Smith of drill music. In reality, though the culture currently surrounding it is based on gang culture & violence, that's the harmful bit.

Perhaps I have misunderstood what you meant by this:

The issue here perhaps though is the culture surrounding this type of music, that lots of this stuff relies on the reputation of the individuals or groups creating it.

I've interpreted this as the culture of violence/gang life drives the creation of the music.

 

[dlockers]

That's called being facetious. Another new word for you. That's 3 in one day!

I am confused. I am both from an urban setting and a young adult. Why am I being implicated by @dowie ?

 

[Nitefly]

By this definition I am an urban youth, does that mean these are also my antics?

No, it doesn’t mean that you (nor all ‘urban youth’) are responsible for these antics.

 

[dlockers]

No, it doesn’t mean that you (nor all ‘urban youth’) are responsible for these antics.

Did you miss @dowie's first sentence?

"Nature is healing now in London, things are starting to open up and the urban youth are back to their antics again:"

This is why I was curious, as I felt that I was being tarred with the same brush. Yet I can't recall the last time I bought a drill music cassette?

 

[Janesy B]

Why not make your own thread about an article you find interesting?

I don't find any of it interesting and threads like this should be banned because there's never a constructive conversation.

 

[Lysander]

I can't recall the last time I bought a drill music cassette?

This can help with that:

 

[dlockers]

I don't find any of it interesting and threads like this should be banned because there's never a constructive conversation.

100%.

Unfortunately @dowie drags people into what is known as the dowie hole, and a lot of the members in Speakers Corner have him on ignore. That is why he is making so many threads in GD.

Unfortunately GD are more interested in the banter than the topic at hand, hence how all of these threads end up in roughly the same way as this one has.

Now let's play the OCUK bingo...
10 points for 'straw man'
20 points for 'ad hominem'

 

[dowie]

Any reason why you doubt it?

Well for the reason already given, the numbers don't work...

Obviously it isn't the only path out they can take, and I'm not trying to say they can all be successful rappers. But there's a lot of creativity going on to make a drill song and accompanying video, like the guardian article in the op mentions, it's more than just rappers, you're providing valuable roles and skills that can get these kids started on a career path (videographers, producers, talent management, rappers, song writers, graphic designers, social media managers etc.).

That's a bit broader now though creative industries, in general, are rather competitive tbh.. But his guy didn't express a desire to study videography (a local college could perhaps be of use there too), he's an aspiring rapper.

I've interpreted this as the culture of violence/gang life drives the creation of the music.

Well it can do, I mean it's got a direct influence on the lyrics for a start, but it's fairly embedded in it in general, it seems to drive some of the success of the music, they already have a reputation etc..

 

[Ayahuasca]

I don't find any of it interesting and threads like this should be banned because there's never a constructive conversation.

'I don't like the conversation so shut it down' and people wonder why society is so divided.

 

[Nitefly]

Did you miss @dowie's first sentence?

"Nature is healing now in London, things are starting to open up and the urban youth are back to their antics again:"

This is why I was curious, as I felt that I was being tarred with the same brush. Yet I can't recall the last time I bought a drill music cassette?

For goodness sake....

There is a value in referring to broad groups of identifiable people in typical conversation. It is obvious that dowie used the phrase in a generic sense without any intention to condemn every person within that category.

If you disagree with the use of language in this manner, to avoid hypocrisy do make sure you never use the phrases ‘men’, ‘woman’, [insert gender / nationality / religion / race] ever again - instead, always say ‘some people’. It’ll be the only way to avoid falling foul of your self-imposed (and wholly unnecessary) dilemma