Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

Mr_Sukebe said:
One thought that does occur. The potential $18Bn fine is surely just for their cars in the US.
Chances are that the "device" in question operates in other countries aswell.
If that's true, doesn't that mean that VW has been defrauding the UK chancellor, as that might directly impact upon the CO2 levels produced and thus the taxation that should be applied to UK sold cars?
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If that is the case, we should do a US and fine VW the equivalent sum based on UK sales and use the money to plug the funding gap of the NHS.
 
I think people are misinterpreting what VW have done here, as I'm pretty sure it will have no effect on them outside of California.

They have detected when on a cycle to engage the EGR etc to reduce NOx artificially. They won't have needed to do this to meet EU requirements. This is a whole level beyond optimised settings, it was deliberately making the car function totally differently, as Johnny points out, to meet emissions that would normally need AdBlue.

The only knock on I would expect is other manufacturers that may have done the same to meet super tight NOx in the US.
 
MagicBoy said:
I suspect this will be the thin edge of the wedge. Most of the manufacturers will have optimised settings for the EU tests.
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Of course they are. When my car first starts it has a lumpy idle because they put in a mode to make it start in a lean fuel mapping, which lasts for about as long as the EU test took. And my cars 13 years old!

VW have just pushed it a bit further, as Kenai says, by making it act differently when it detects a test.
 
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Diagro said:
Yea.....

The ECU detects when its doing a test. It then adjusts the cars performance to reduce the Co2 on said test.
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Swing and a miss.

Kenai said:
Reduce NOx I think, not CO2, it's the NOx limits that are really tight in California
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Are there any technical details on how it was achieved? The chap on TV this morning suggested they were just introducing more air into the mix, so the nitrogen oxides were effectively diluted.
 
Dogbreath said:
The news articles are suggesting the "defeat device" works by injecting more urea when on a test cycle. Not exactly unknown for them to print complete BS though.

Grauniad
Telegraph
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Good find.

So the increased dosing isnt really an issue, its how they have skewed it to deliver the emissions whilst maintaining a sensible service life / tank volume for the actual real world cars and hence not meeting legislation - crafty.

NOx is legal compliance unlike the EU CO2 ratings so its quite difference result.
 
It does raise the question about the validity of other car manufacturers emission control systems.

This could be compared to the widespread drug cheating in cycling. i.e. they needed to take drugs to be competitive but they knew it was illegal and scandal would follow.
 
Interesting. Although it sounds like the tests are entirely lab based, which is why this wasn't picked up sooner. I didn't even know urea had been used to control emissions for so long. How they thought they wouldn't get caught though is another matter.
 
gord said:
Interesting. Although it sounds like the tests are entirely lab based, which is why this wasn't picked up sooner.
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The lab and real world anomaly was identified in May 2014


How Volkswagen’s emissions scandal unfolded

May 2014 The West Virginia University’s (WVU) Centre for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions publishes results of a study commissioned by the International Council on Clean Transportation that found significantly higher-than-claimed in-use emissions from two diesel cars, a 2012 Jetta and a 2013 Passat. A BMW X5 also tested passed the tests. WVU alerts California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to the issue.

Summer 2014 Over the course of the year following the publication of the WVU study, VW continues to assert to CARB and the EPA that the increased emissions from these vehicles could be attributed to various technical issues and unexpected in-use conditions.

December 2014 VW issues a voluntary recall of approximately 500,000 vehicles to address the emissions issue.

6 May 2015 CARB, in coordination with the EPA, conducts follow-up testing of these vehicles both in the laboratory and during normal road operation to confirm the efficacy of VW’s recall. Testing shows the recall has had only a limited benefit. None of the potential technical issues suggested by VW can explain the higher test results consistently confirmed during further testing by CARB.

Summer 2015 CARB and the EPA make it clear that they will not approve certificates of conformity - necessary for vehicles to be sold in the USA – for VW’s 2016 model year diesel vehicles until the manufacturer car adequately explain the anomalous emissions and ensure the agencies that the 2016 model year vehicles would not have similar issues.

3 September 2015 During a meeting VW admits it has designed and installed a defeat device in these vehicles in the form of a sophisticated software algorithm that detects when a vehicle is undergoing emissions testing.

18 September 2015 CARB and the EPA make their findings public, stating that Volkswagen has violated two sections of the Clean Air Act, firstly by selling or offering for sale vehicles that did not comply with their certificates of conformity, and second by manufacturing and installing into these vehicles an electronic control module capable of switching its calibration to beat the emissions tests.
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Source : Autocar
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...company-was-dishonest-we-have-totally-screwed
 
If you drove the universally accepted drive cycle on the road then you will get the same emissions output and fuel economy. Its basically like F1 rules, understand the rules then understand the loopholes for an advantage.

Same as here in UK, if you drive the NEDC route you WILL get the exact figures. however people complain that when they drive differently that their figures dont match.

Who's fault is this? The OEM who face big fines if their CO2 is too high so do everything they can to minimise NEDC emissions? Or the people who set the test cycle - which could be argued is unrealistic?

Lab testing in this context will be in a fully controlled chassis dyno.
 
^^^

To obtain a certificate of conformity, a manufacturer must submit a list of all auxiliary emission control devices (AECDs) present on the vehicle. The EPA’s definition of an AECD is “any element of design which senses temperature, vehicle speed, engine RPM, transmission gear, manifold vacuum or any other parameter for the purpose of activating, modulating, delaying or deactivating the operation of any part of the emission control system.”
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The issue facing Volkswagen is the switchable system in the ECM was not declared.
 
muon said:
Well Mercedes and BMW shares are down becuase of this worry. Or perhaps there is even insider information out there.
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I doubt VAG were the only guys to be aware/clever enough to invent a system to circumvent the tests. Its just a matter of time i guess...

Real world, what does this mean for these cars? Does it mean they cant be sold on anymore until they are 'fixed'? They'll have their car tax changed? I know they are only talking US right now but i doubt the cars sold in the EU don't have the same software/systems on board.
 
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