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Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

Discussion in 'Motors' started by coolsurfer, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. DAIR


    Joined: Jul 23, 2009

    Posts: 8,649

    Location: Wales

    What if they cannot pass? Perhaps it's impossible
  2. wesley


    Joined: Jul 29, 2003

    Posts: 7,176

    if the car cannot pass the MOT after the 'defeat device' removed then yes it'll be impossible to lower the emission unless i'm wrong

    how does the 'defeat device' knows the car is about to tested?

    is the 'defeat device' a software or hardware?
  3. MichaelAwkward


    Joined: Jul 22, 2014

    Posts: 3,114

    Location: Oxon

    It's been widely reported as just software.
  4. Kenai


    Joined: Apr 5, 2009

    Posts: 17,683

    Well if them passing is based on increased injection of urea as previously suggested, then one would imagine they'll just have to modify the cars to use more AdBlue so that they meet emissions in regular use, even if that means the customer will have to top it up 10 times more regularly or whatever.

    Ultimately, I can see other manufacturers getting pinched for this, as everyone realises standards like LEV160 are just completely unachievable in the real world without copious amounts of additives that consumers won't want to be bothered with. I don't for a minute believe that only VW can't achieve this limit but all of the BMW, Merc, Ford, GM etc. diesel engines do it happily.

    I also suspect little will happen in Europe if it is just NOx related, at least in terms of any cars that are aiming at Euro5. Euro6 may be a different matter but we're only really just encountering that now - it may be that we see a vastly increased use of AdBlue to what was expected too.
  5. Nasher


    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,167

    The rest of the VW group are almost certainly doing it as well (Audi, Skoda, Seat), since they use the exact same engines. I wonder if the government will decide to pump up tax on diesel cars. Normally they will leap at any opportinity to get more tax out of people.

    Maybe this is why emissions are always worse on equivalent Japanese cars. Maybe they aren't cheating (as much) :p
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  6. dalin80


    Joined: Apr 20, 2007

    Posts: 3,465

    The UK diesel emissions test is so half-hearted that it wont effect getting an MOT here, it's more how the cars fit into EU and other nation wide laws.
  7. Tom_ed1987

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004

    Posts: 1,445

    Location: Warwickshire

    I wonder if all this will have an effect on the fabled VAG cast iron residuals
  8. Jonnycoupe


    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 11,570

    Location: N.Warks

    What are you talking about.

    This is about new cars and type approval for the various emission criteria. Nothing to do with an MOT. Euro 6 which is the big change for diesel and Nox across Europe. EU6c in 2018 will align EU Markets with US TIER III standards for new cars.
  9. Jumper118


    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,807

    Location: Leeds

    funny how they test them when they are new and then people go blank the erg valve, because it just gets clogged up and put a straight pipe on. i wonder how much NO my car puts out. :p
  10. jak731


    Joined: Mar 17, 2007

    Posts: 5,474

    Location: Plymouth

    Bring on the tesla model 3! I can't help but think we'll be wondering why we stayed with ICE cars for so long in 20-30 years when most cars are electric and the air quality in cities is vastly improved..

    Don't get me wrong I have a 2.5l turbo diesel and like it but I'll go electric when it's affordable with decent range/performance.
  11. SpeedFreak


    Joined: Nov 14, 2002

    Posts: 6,687

    Location: Bristol

    Remember all those RS4s hitting lower power figures on rolling roads, I wonder......
  12. Sagalout


    Joined: Nov 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,656

    Location: Harrogate

    I wonder how this will affect sales in the short term - would anyone here buy a brand new VW diesel right now?
  13. xs2man


    Joined: Jul 21, 2008

    Posts: 4,535

    I certainly wouldn't, but then I've been of that opinion since 2012 when I had my last new VAG diesel for 3 months before returning it because of terrible fuel economy.
  14. Kenai


    Joined: Apr 5, 2009

    Posts: 17,683

    Wonder what?

    If they were applying measures to reduce an emission that is primarily a diesel problem on a petrol engine?

    I doubt it.
  15. adam cool dude


    Joined: Oct 22, 2002

    Posts: 6,644

    Location: Boston, Lincolnshire

    Most likely because the engine was bench tested BHP. Lots of marques do this but N/A generally shows this more. Clio 182 comes to mind.

    On a more serious note would this "11 billion" have a big effect on VW? Last thing we need is people losing their jobs!
  16. Alibaba99

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 29, 2004

    Posts: 2,242

    I wouldn't bet on being able to replicate the actual economy figures as the manufacturers take some liberties when calculating the rolling resistance of the vehicles. Things like performing the coast down test at high altitude, using oil in the bearings instead of grease, active aero that shuts off the airflow through the vehicle all reduce the rolling resistance. Electric power steering means that no power is consumed when the car is sat on rollers, but it is rather difficult to drive with no steering input.

    I think the uproar comes from the fact that the cars actually exceed a legal limit that would have prevented the cars from being sold.
  17. BigglesPiP


    Joined: Mar 8, 2006

    Posts: 13,237

    Location: Chandlers Ford

    More oxygen would increase combustion temperatures and increase NO (Nitrogen Monoxide) emissions. It's reduced by introducing inert gas (exhaust gas) to the combustion chamber to reduce combustion temperatures, or in VW's case by also adding urea from a tank to the exhaust.

    It appears VW pump a lot more urea in if the car thinks it's in a test.

    Yes, but if you fix it to pump enough urea into the exhaust all the time the tank will need filling more often than the service schedule. VW drivers will need to start peeing in their DEF tanks.

    I'm pretty sure Peugoet run a small tank of the stuff filled at service too, they're likely playing the same game.

    Maybe diesel owners are going to have to get used to adblue, like the truck drivers. Or VW can design their engines better, a lot of cars don't need the stuff currently. As to what the emissions are like when your EGR clogs up though...

    I think it's in our best interests that the authorities don't start making the test more realistic, including sustained WOT for example.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
  18. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 154,490

    What difference does it make, NOX figures have no bearing on UK purchases currently.
  19. dalin80


    Joined: Apr 20, 2007

    Posts: 3,465

    I was replying to people who talking about how this effects the car going through an MOT, hence my comment on the UK diesel emissions test. Keep up!
  20. Kenai


    Joined: Apr 5, 2009

    Posts: 17,683

    Well, there are the usual 'experts' appearing on TV and radio saying things about how the fines could put VW into administration etc.

    If people take comments like that seriously, they may well avoid the brand entirely in the short term.