Wayne Rooney: Has he lived up to the hype
- Thread starter azza21
- Start date
That is true, yes. They are not the same position though.
No he isn't.
No you're not.
I got that, but his grouping system is wrong. Even if you say he was using a different naming convention you don't (and never did) have keeper, defender, midfielder and striker. You have keeper, defender, midfielder and attacker. Under attacker you have winger, centre forward (AKA striker) and AMC. So you see, even if he was substituting the word 'forward' for 'striker' rather than saying Rooney was an out-and-out goalscorer which a striker is, he'd still be wrong
The only argument he could make is he meant second striker, as in the old inside forward.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,058
- Location
- Surrey
But Fowler is a striker 
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
he's really not at all, the fundamental thing is he started as a striker, he was bought by Man U as a goal scorer and the expectation was he would build from his 12ish goals a season at Everton mature and at a bigger club with a full season he would turn into a great striker. Its only in the years following that it became very clear he'd never be a 30 goal a year striker that he started to drop deeper and deeper to i guess compensate for his lack of goals by doing more. HOwever, Capello, Fergie both complain and tell him to not do so, Rooney seems to think he tends to drop deep to much and needs to be more clinical and a proper striker.
It really seems to be people making excuses for his not world class goal record as to why he's not a world class striker. Last year without ROnaldo in the team , and this year Man U would find themselves dominating possesion and still not look like scoring, you have to have out and out strikers in a team to be honest. Tevez and Rooney together without Ronaldo scoring looked pretty flat, you can run around all you want but with no one infront of goal or taking shots it doesn't matter.
Again I'll say it, be a striker, or a attacking midfielder, forwards suck. Bergkamp was great and was really a striker, creative and able to provide goals, but got many goals as the guy furthest forward, as he got slower and older he dropped deeper and deeper and he was just not even close to the same threat, he dropped from 10-15 goals to 5 a season, acceptable at a Wigan, not a top 4 club.
And back around we go.
You appear to have understood here.
Oh but he is. To avoid confusion here, I know he is also a forward.
Not that it gets us anywhere, but yes I am.
The 4 main positions in Football are the following: Goalkeeper, Defender, Midfielder, Striker.
Everywhere I've read states this, Wikipedia, BBC, ESPN, every official football club website out there, my ex football coach, coach at secondary school and college.
This is the way I've known, well, forever. No-one else seems to share your opinion since SPW's excellent explanation, so leads me to you are in fact the person in the wrong here.
You appear to have understood here.
Oh but he is. To avoid confusion here, I know he is also a forward.
Not that it gets us anywhere, but yes I am.
I got that, but his grouping system is wrong. Even if you say he was using a different naming convention you don't (and never did) have keeper, defender, midfielder and striker. You have keeper, defender, midfielder and attacker. Under attacker you have winger, centre forward (AKA striker) and AMC. So you see, even if he was substituting the word 'forward' for 'striker' rather than saying Rooney was an out-and-out goalscorer which a striker is, he'd still be wrong
The only argument he could make is he meant second striker, as in the old inside forward.
The 4 main positions in Football are the following: Goalkeeper, Defender, Midfielder, Striker.
Everywhere I've read states this, Wikipedia, BBC, ESPN, every official football club website out there, my ex football coach, coach at secondary school and college.
This is the way I've known, well, forever. No-one else seems to share your opinion since SPW's excellent explanation, so leads me to you are in fact the person in the wrong here.
Last edited:
That's quite an odd criteria given that Bergkamp when 'past his best' and dropping deep was part of the Arsenal 'invincibles' and that Rooney, when playing as a 'forward' was part of the Man Utd Champs League and Premiership double
Kinda implies that the managers knew what they were doing with the players
Kinda implies that the managers knew what they were doing with the players
I do forget how long we've had Ronaldo for! Could be as he was rather frustrating as first
He won the Sir Matt Busby player of the year award in his first season. He wasn't as bad as people remember. He didn't get the goals, but over 2 seasons I believe he hit the woodwork over 40 times - he actually held a record for it. Those shots that hit the post have, over time, turned to goals.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
That's quite an odd criteria given that Bergkamp when 'past his best' and dropping deep was part of the Arsenal 'invincibles' and that Rooney, when playing as a 'forward' was part of the Man Utd Champs League and Premiership double
Kinda implies that the managers knew what they were doing with the players
Except Fergie insists Rooney drops too deep and keeps telling him not to, so if the manager knows what he's doing, as you say he's telling Rooney to do the exact opposite to what he is doing.
As for the Invincibles, scoring goals obviously helps being unbeaten, however, he scored 4, started more games than normal on the bench and got less than half the goals of the previous season and less assists. There seems to be this ridiculous thinking that you have to drop deep to set up goals. Keane and berb set each other up for many goals and both will go beyond the defence and stay up the field. Theres no need to drop deep to have enough quality to set up goals, theres zero reason Rooney needs to, it just seems like he wants to be the main man, rather than stay upfront and get less time on the ball. Bergkamp kind of sucked still in the invincibles season, wasn't bad at all but wasn't great, it was an incredibly solid defence, team spirit and Henry scoring a ludicrous amount to be quite honest. Aswell as a LOT of goals from Pires and the likes.
I'll say it again, for the umpteenth time, he could be a better striker, or a better midfielder than he is now if he picks a position and sticks with it. Man U have more than enough quality in midfield to let him stay up the top, they simply don't need his help there. Likewise They could drop him into midfield and play Berb/Tevez up top, he just doesn't need to be "in the hole" at all and could be a better player being more focused on one role. The problem is, other players don't know how to play for him, Scholes it thinking shall I pass a long ball for Rooney, or will the pratt drop deep. If Rooney simply stays uptop always looking for the run inbehind its an easy option for the midfield, but with him randomly deciding what his job is other players around him can't read what he would do. Without a ridiculous number of goals from ROnaldo last year Man U would have won nothing and Rooney's lack of goals would have been blamed frankly.
People keep getting into the idea that if someone suggest he isn't playing at his best you are calling them utter turd, which I'm not. But this thread is about him living up to his hype and about if he's world class. At the moment he has an average goal tally, ok assists, and nothing really suggests anything close to the hype he had when he was younger. I don't see how he can be classed as world class right now, however I think he could easily be a 20 goals a year player, maybe even more, if he simply stuck to being a striker.
Last edited:
Way off topic drunkenmaster but how many words a minute can you type?
One big rubbish post a day.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
It's a genuine question, I've not seen anything like it
dunno, i type incredibly quickly, no idea why, well practiced. People get the impression i put hours into my posts or something and assume I'm all worked up due to time spent, but takes me seconds, meh.
although i didn't state it categorically, I did mean 20 goals a season in the prem alone, frankly he's not even remotely close to that, didn't he get 8 goals last year, and 13 assists? again not terrible but I think he has a chance of being a truly great striker, i think he's good but with far more effective players in midfield so it seems senseless to waste him as a half and half player.
England suffer massively from having Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney all playing in the same gap with no one on the wing(normally gerrard who refuses to stay in position there) and one striker upfront against a often decent quality back four. You simply only need one player there, any more is a waste, spreading out your players gives you more options and more space. having rooney in there just drags an extra defender/midfielder into a tight area giving Scholes/carrick at man u, and Lampard for England no room to run the game, thats what they are there for and frankly, are far better at creating goals than Rooney. He's just taking over a job thats already being done and leaving them a striker light when they shouldn't be. If he was equally good at left back , would it be ok to drop back there and have two left backs, no, its stupid, no less stupid than what he does now.
he was only a key ingredient to the unbeatables of 03/04 ...yeh bergkamp was crap toward the end of his career
if anything he got better with age due to his football brain, he was one of the best passers of the football you will ever see and a totally unselfish player.....he could have scored more goals but was happy to be used primarily as a playmaker toward the end.
you can sing the praises of a complete tit in Eboue but Berg was not good enough for arsenal? you're an absolute trip fella
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 2,647
Rooney is a deep lying forward, or at least thats his best position in my opinion. I hate to see him work the flanks. I read an interview wih Fergie just before the start of the season where he stated that Man U had not got the best out of Rooney or helped him develop at the rate he should have. I got the impression that Fergie blamed himself and his coaches more than he did the player.
Its clear that Rooney has been playing low on confidence for a season or two but even then he is still a world-class forward. I still expect great things from him over the next two to three years if he stays fit.
And I'm a Liverpool fan for the record.
Its clear that Rooney has been playing low on confidence for a season or two but even then he is still a world-class forward. I still expect great things from him over the next two to three years if he stays fit.
And I'm a Liverpool fan for the record.
I think part of the "problem" with Rooney is that he doesn't fit into any standard positional definition.
He's perhaps very good at a lot of things, without being great at any.
Still, over a season he brings a lot to the team and is a very important player.
He probably could stand to lose a few pounds and his temper continues to be an issue but theres not a lot wrong with him.
If he was foreign and hadn't burst onto the scene at such a young age, people wouldn't have expected him to become "the white pele" and you would see far less talk of him being a failure.
He just needs to find his best role, stick to it and theres every chance he will become the world class player people predicted - and that will be fine.
After all, very very few reach that level in their early 20's, so he should be given the benefit of the doubt.
He's perhaps very good at a lot of things, without being great at any.
Still, over a season he brings a lot to the team and is a very important player.
He probably could stand to lose a few pounds and his temper continues to be an issue but theres not a lot wrong with him.
If he was foreign and hadn't burst onto the scene at such a young age, people wouldn't have expected him to become "the white pele" and you would see far less talk of him being a failure.
He just needs to find his best role, stick to it and theres every chance he will become the world class player people predicted - and that will be fine.
After all, very very few reach that level in their early 20's, so he should be given the benefit of the doubt.