Weekend Football 15th-16th Jan

Tunney said:
chance. It's a shame neither him nor Modric can shoot for toffee though. :)

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modric has a very sweet shot on him but palacios couldn't hit a barn door. the best thing about modirc is his attitude, he's not the biggest of people by a long shot but he get's stuck in incredibly well and best of all, he loves it at spurs and so he should do, he is part of an awesome midfield. looking forward to how things go when huddlestone is back. really exciting times at tottenham, i wonder if berbatov ever visualises himself linking up with the midfield we have now compared to when he was with us?
 
Shamikebab said:
Modric had a great game, would love to have a player like that at United. I'd have to say I do think Vidic just edged it for MOTM.
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Well this has to be summer where United invest tbh, whilst I'm not criticising the current squad Scholes & Giggs cant go on forever with it all up in the air as to whether either will even retire at the end of this season and Fergie has said that replacements for both will need to be bought so I'm expecting some purchases in the close season

As for whether Modric will be one of them I wouldn't rule it out, he's only 25 and according to Arry Fergie wants him. My only problem with Modric is he falls into the same category as Fletcher, Carrick & Anderson in that he doesn't score nearly enough goals which is why I'm really surprised we never went for Ozil in the summer (unless we did and he preferred Madrid) - same kind of player to Modric but carries a far greater goal threat

I know Spurs fans will say they aren't a selling team anymore but while Arry is talking himself up as the next England manager I cant take them seriously because if they really were serious about being title contenders they'd have a manager fully committed like SAF, Wenger, Ancelotti etc etc plus Spurs could really use the 30m they'd charge us to get a half decent striker in ;)
 
Tom84 said:
Well this has to be summer where United invest tbh, whilst I'm not criticising the current squad Scholes & Giggs cant go on forever with it all up in the air as to whether either will even retire at the end of this season and Fergie has said that replacements for both will need to be bought so I'm expecting some purchases in the close season
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I think the problem is that fans have been saying this for 3 years now. I still think Giggs and Scholes will be around next year so I can see Fergie still relying on them :(

I just hope he doesn't do to Scholes and Giggs what he's done to Neville, not knowing when a player can't perform at this level any more. I'd hate to see it get to that.

I still think one of the players I'd most like to see at United is Schweinsteiger.
 
Shamikebab said:
I think the problem is that fans have been saying this for 3 years now.
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These 'fans' have been incorrect though because with the exception of last season where we missed out on the title by a point the current squad has still been good enough

Whilst 'just' the premiership wont be enough for some people the best team doesn't always win the Champions League (see last season as a classic case of this) so heavy investment the minute Ronaldo and Tevez left may well have just shifted the argument from "we need new players" to "these players Fergie has bought aren't good enough"

Shamikebab said:
I just hope he doesn't do to Scholes and Giggs what he's done to Neville, not knowing when a player can't perform at this level any more. I'd hate to see it get to that.
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I think that's a somewhat naive/ignorant way of looking at it, Fergie knows more than anyone on these message boards and he obviously thinks Neville can still play his part. I'm not saying that I disagree with you regarding Neville as he's clearly struggled in the games against Stoke, Wolves & West Brom but to say that Fergie doesn't know when a player is past it is quite disrespectful. Neville may have struggled due to lack of football for all we know, certainly his concentration and positioning in those games point towards that.

Shamikebab said:
I still think one of the players I'd most like to see at United is Schweinsteiger.
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Good shout but just signed a new contract and Bayern so wont be an option IMO
 
Tom84 said:
I know Spurs fans will say they aren't a selling team anymore but while Arry is talking himself up as the next England manager I cant take them seriously because if they really were serious about being title contenders they'd have a manager fully committed like SAF, Wenger, Ancelotti etc etc plus Spurs could really use the 30m they'd charge us to get a half decent striker in ;)
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you can't take us seriously? did you take us seriously yesterday?
 
cm1179 said:
you can't take us seriously? did you take us seriously yesterday?
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Dont get me wrong Spurs... well Arry has got himself an incredible squad with quality all over the place and I'd go as far as saying that certainly in the midfield a lot of your players would get in ahead of what we've got currently

but

Should Arry take the England job where will that leave you then? My guess would be flitting between managers every couple of years like you were pre-Redknapp and if your best players see your manager take what he deems a bigger job than the one at Spurs who's to say they wont look to leave also? As it is like I said should 30m come in for one of your players I cant see it being turned down due to what further investment that money could bring....
 
cm1179 said:
redknapp and beckham for england would be good - redknapp could do both i reckon
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The die hard England fans (of which I am certainly not) wouldn't be happy with that. Not sure the FA would allow it either

Personally I think Redknapp should ignore the England job, it's a poisoned chalice that job. He's got a good thing with Spurs but it seems inevitable that he'll be the next England manager
 
BaZ87 said:
Excuse me? :confused:
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He may have meant that Gerrard makes awful tackles, specifically the one against United recently.

Tom84 said:
Whilst 'just' the premiership wont be enough for some people the best team doesn't always win the Champions League (see last season as a classic case of this) so heavy investment the minute Ronaldo and Tevez left may well have just shifted the argument from "we need new players" to "these players Fergie has bought aren't good enough"
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Heavy investment 'may well' have done a lot of things, but I don't see the logic in pointing out one outcome over the other unless you happened to get a peek at Fergie's 2008 shortlist. We 'may' also have edged the Champions League last year with extra players for all the good speculation will do us.
Also I would think fans (or "fans" as you seem to like calling them) would prefer the team and any purchases playing better football and seeing the trophies coming after (as they inevitably would) rather than the apparant reverse we have now where we play horribly but still look like grinding out the league and more. Pretending people don't notice the performance on the pitch and only look to trophies seems blind to me, you only have to look at United fans' posts here week-in, week-out to see that isn't true.

Whether or not going on a window spree would do this is another matter, but saying that bought players would be slated if they didn't win X Cup or Y Trophy regardless of their quality is absurd. We could do the treble again this year and that wouldn't stop Carrick being a waste of carbon.
 
guyfawkes5 said:
saying that bought players would be slated if they didn't win X Cup or Y Trophy regardless of their quality is absurd. We could do the treble again this year and that wouldn't stop Carrick being a waste of carbon.
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Oh really? What happened then when we signed Veron and didn't win the title (in his first season) or Champions League (in either of his seasons)? He was a proven world class player but is generally looked at as a flop. What has been the story of Berbatov's United career? Proven class act at Spurs but because we didn't win the title last season and he's not played the same as he did at Spurs the general consensus seems to be why did we sign him and not make more of an effort to sign Tevez?

Some transfers work out (like Carrick FYI) others dont and inevitably the ones that dont work out are widely criticised. Signing play x, y and z regardless of who they may be doesn't always mean success and when it doesn't they're branded a waste of money and the manager who signed them doesn't have a clue. To argue that would be absurd
 
Berbatov was looked on as a flop because of the way fans saw him play, not because we were pipped to the title by Chelsea. United didn't win the title the year we signed Valencia, why not the same level of vitriol towards him then? Could it be that the majority of fans are not stupid peons cowering before footballing visionaries such ourselves and actually judge on performance?

Veron is a funny example to bring up, because Berbatov had the quality (as we can see now) but didn't perform, yet Veron might be a case of not having the quality in the first place.

'Proven' in his case means 'proven' in Brazil (which doesn't mean much as I posted in the transfer thread) and 'proven' through a couple of seasons in Italy (not the most rigourous test as most would concede). Now he may or may not of had the quality required to succeed in the Premiership (many players have proven in the past that you can succeed in Brazil and/or other leagues and flop horribly in England), but that is entirely beside the point that yet again fans judged on performances and not silverware. Didn't we win the Premiership the year he joined us? Surely wouldn't that have papered over his awfulness on the pitch in the eyes of the lobotomised masses down in the Stretford End?

Carrick was a good buy yes, and certainly no matter how bad his current form I wouldn't deny that straight from Spurs he was worthy of the price.

All in all, most fans want to sign players who will make the team play better and hopefully get some silverware in turn. As I've said, you only have to see the threads in here for each United game, if silverware was the only criterion for fans then why aren't they harping on about being 1st in the league and how the squad is the best ever assembled by the rosy-cheeked demi-god? Why are they actually commenting how the team plays? Are they that above their station?

You might get fans who think like you say, but that doesn't stop them a) being idiots and b) being a decided minority.
 
People called Berbatov a flop because he was a £30m striker who didn't score, obviously he had talent, I don't think there's a £30m player out there who doesn't. He's just not effective enough to justify his price tag.
 
guyfawkes5 said:
'Proven' in his case means 'proven' in Brazil (which doesn't mean much as I posted in the transfer thread) and 'proven' through a couple of seasons in Italy (not the most rigourous test as most would concede). Now he may or may not of had the quality required to succeed in the Premiership (many players have proven in the past that you can succeed in Brazil and/or other leagues and flop horribly in England), but that is entirely beside the point that yet again fans judged on performances and not silverware. Didn't we win the Premiership the year he joined us? Surely wouldn't that have papered over his awfulness on the pitch in the eyes of the lobotomised masses down in the Stretford End?
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Veron was World Class whether he played in Brazil and Italy or not, he was Argentina's main play maker in the World Cup, years after he had left MU and Italy. The problem was he couldn't settle, he was used to being the top dog with every passage of play going through him, in England he was playing with equally gifted midfielders who dictated the play as well.

He always looked lost to me in most matches in the Prem but when he was up against foreign opposition he was class.

I will never forget his performance against Tottenham at WHL when we were 3-0 at half time. :D

jakeke said:
People called Berbatov a flop because he was a £30m striker who didn't score, obviously he had talent, I don't think there's a £30m player out there who doesn't. He's just not effective enough to justify his price tag.
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Yup, Berbatov would have been class for United had they bagged him first time round for 12 million or whatever it was. But for 30 million you expect him to be the dogs danglies everytime he takes to the pitch.
 
guyfawkes5 said:
Berbatov was looked on as a flop because of the way fans saw him play, not because we were pipped to the title by Chelsea. United didn't win the title the year we signed Valencia, why not the same level of vitriol towards him then?
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Simple. Berbatov cost 30m from Tottenham and was a big name. Valencia was brought from lowely Wigan with no expectations whatsoever.

guyfawkes5 said:
Veron might be a case of not having the quality in the first place.
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Yeah Veron had no quality. Righto. Question did you see him play for Lazio? Have you seen him in the Argentina side since he left Chelsea? Yes Veron struggled to adapt to the premiership but to question his ability is truly moronic. The guy had genuine World Class ability.

guyfawkes5 said:
Didn't we win the Premiership the year he joined us?
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No

guyfawkes5 said:
All in all, most fans want to sign players who will make the team play better and hopefully get some silverware in turn.
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But the fans aren't the manager, if the manager cant see anyone worth investing in then he wont sign anyone simple. Are you saying that these fans know more about football than the current manager?

guyfawkes5 said:
As I've said, you only have to see the threads in here for each United game, if silverware was the only criterion for fans then why aren't they harping on about being 1st in the league and how the squad is the best ever assembled by the rosy-cheeked demi-god? Why are they actually commenting how the team plays? Are they that above their station?
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This forum to be perfectly honest is full of spoilt fans, get them on a man utd forum and they wouldn't last 2 weeks with their opinions on the manager and the current players. Now whether that makes them right or wrong isn't for me to say because it's all based on opinions but I personally prefer to support the team rather than moan about this and that

No this isn't the best United team ever but they're still top of the league so what does that say about the rest of the teams if we're so crap?

guyfawkes5 said:
You might get fans who think like you say, but that doesn't stop them a) being idiots and b) being a decided minority.
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So people that dont agree with the 4 or 5 regular united fans that post on this forum are idiots and in the minority? They may be in the minority on here but like I said go over to somewhere like the redcafe and see if they're in the minority there. Again though I'm not saying either side is right or wrong as it's based on opinions but I would think if you support a club then you support them not bitch about every little thing

Thank god none of the united fans on this forum support Liverpool, I think they'd have drowned by now in their negativity

jakeke said:
People called Berbatov a flop because he was a £30m striker who didn't score, obviously he had talent, I don't think there's a £30m player out there who doesn't. He's just not effective enough to justify his price tag.
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TBH that kind of proves my point, no doubt pre signing Berbatov most United supporters were very pro signing him because of the form he showed at Spurs (I know I was) and yet despite spending 30m on him it's taken till this season to really show any kind of consistent goal scoring form proving not every big money signing pays off so what is the result? Many people saying we should have kept Tevez and never signed Berbatov.

What's to say that if we went and threw 30m at Sneijder last summer like a lot wanted and he went and had the season for us that he's having for Inter that those wanting these big money signings wouldn't change their tune?
 
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