Poll: WengIn or WengOut?

In or Out?

  • In

    Votes: 18 20.0%
  • Out

    Votes: 48 53.3%
  • jonneymendoza

    Votes: 24 26.7%

  • Total voters
    90
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Don
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I can't see how Ozil signed a new contract unless he thinks there's going to be some changes at the club soon.
Probably because there was no other club where he'd be a first team regular or pay him anything like £300k per week. That said, it appears as if things are moving in the background in preparation for Wenger's exit. I think I mentioned something about it in the January transfer thread about how there was a clear shift in transfer targets from the end of last summer to who you signed in January and how it already appears as if Wenger's control on the club has been weakened.

Wenger should have gone last summer after you won the Cup. Even though he never really underachieved when you look at what he was competing against, he and the club had gone stale and the support had become so toxic that there was nothing he could do to turn things around. I actually think had he left last summer that in time people would have looked back and realised that even in his latter years he didn't do that bad. This season has been a disaster though and the state of the squad now coupled with the likelihood of missing out on the CL again could set Arsenal back a long way.

It was interesting to see Rodgers being linked with the job given how poorly he worked in our transfer set-up and it appearing as if Arsenal are moving towards something similar.
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
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Did anyone honestly think we would beat City?? Come on!!! It’s bloody City, a team that is running away with the league and have only suffered one loss all season.
The way arsenal are at the moment, I gave them absolutely no hope of winning.

I could understand if it was say Wigan or a lower league team beating us. That would be unforgivable but it was City and I imagine any team would have struggled to beat them yesterday.

Meh anyhow just find it funny how much hate Arsenal get in the media.

Arsenal get very little in the way of media bias against them. If you watched the game you would know why. Arsenal never turned up and City were bang average. You could have lost 5/6-0 if City put their hearts into it. They just cruised to 3-0 up and then cruised to the end of the game because Arsenal gave a total of 0 *****. Your players didn't look like they cared even a little that they were getting beaten heavily in a cup final.

Thats why people are slating them. Its not the fact they got beaten by the best team in the league its the way they did it. If City turned up and blew you away then fair enough but they didn't. Either you are delusional in thinking that was acceptable or you did not see that ludicrous display last night.
 
Caporegime
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Yes. And that books down to the manager.

This article is quite true.

I argue that Wenger earlier success at Arsenal was because the team he inherited had a mix of the old Arsenal in them and he could just focus on the attack.

He's over stayed at the club. It really is time for him to go.

I've said this for a long time, the point our defence crumbled and our personality changed coincides with the last players in the defence and midfield who played and trained alongside Adams or Keown. Sol was already a leader and played with their influence in training, so did many others. Once anyone who spent the day training alongside those guys influence, who can direct and basically coach other players while doing training, the teams core defensive strength that allowed the attack to build from simply vanished.

I talk about Mourinho and other managers, you build on what was there and you can have success but long term it doesn't mean you can repeat your success as what was there before that was key to the success is long gone. Mourinho adds defensive stability to an ultra attacking side and you get success but after a few years the offences become disjointed and stop working and the defence becomes under more and more pressure, the players are shattered from his lack of rotation and the exact same thing he did during title winning years now becomes a disaster, because what was a key ingredient was a great offence from previous managers and their form which only lasts so long.

Wenger is the same, the mentality, the defensive strength and the leadership was at Arsenal before Wenger joined, he bought well for 5+ years and improved the attack immeasurably and you had a golden period, but once the entire defence and old team was gone and their influence was no longer apparent on new players that defensive solidity and leadership was gone and has never been replaced. This is why I've wanted Wenger gone for so long, he never made these things in the first place, half the reason for Arsenal's success was something Wenger never actually did and it only takes 3-4 years to show he couldn't learn to produce it on his own so the next 10 have been a joke waiting for others to realise that.

Wenger's biggest failure is not recognising this, he credits his own training and management with why the team won before so he keeps repeating the same mistakes without realising why they aren't working.


Did anyone honestly think we would beat City?? Come on!!! It’s bloody City, a team that is running away with the league and have only suffered one loss all season.
The way arsenal are at the moment, I gave them absolutely no hope of winning.

I could understand if it was say Wigan or a lower league team beating us. That would be unforgivable but it was City and I imagine any team would have struggled to beat them yesterday.

Meh anyhow just find it funny how much hate Arsenal get in the media.

To put that in context, City are running away with the league yet drew with Palace, Burnley and lost to Liverpool. Everyone has off games and for the record, City didn't play very well in the final, we just played absolutely abysmally. Same story for what 8 years in a row in the round of 16. It's not that we lost, it's HOW we lost. The same thoroughly pathetic mistakes being made, the same woeful performances from the same players. Wenger after 3 years of seeing Ozil fail to show up in such games rewarded him with a 350k a week contract shortly before our only chance of silverware this year.... Ozil failed to show up. Yes Wenger/Arsenal deserve crushing because they don't change.

Did I personally think they would win this game, hell no, could they, hell yes. Same way Wigan won a FA Cup final (was that also against City?) at the same time as getting relegated. It's a single game and anyone can win, but Arsenal didn't get beaten by better football, they got beaten by failing to show up and being completely awful. No other teams I can name consistently embarrass themselves on such a stage. 3 FA cups, woo, two were against Hull and Villa, we almost lost the first and only came back because it was Hull, a team that deserved to go down but I believe didn't tlil the next season, Villa were even worse. Chelsea was our only genuinely good performance in such a big game in the past 15 years and one in like, 50, is not good enough.

Yes he would but the question then is, do Arsenal benefit from this? Ozil isn't good enough to justify having a side built around him and Arsenal aren't good enough to carry him. The days of attacking players just having the freedom to attack and not have to put a shift in are over, at least they are to anybody that's not peak Ronaldo/Messi anyway. You only have to look at the two best attacking sides in the League and the defensive work their forwards put in to see that. It's not just a defensive issue too but also an offensive one - as I said, look at Liverpool and City, how many goals do they score as a result of their forwards winning the ball high up the pitch? Ozil's a very talented player and when things are going well he's incredibly dangerous but all too often he goes missing and Arsenal suffer because of it.


The only attacking players that did little to nothing defensive were straight up strikers which Ozil isn't and has never been. I can't think of many players who were playing wide or central attacking midfield roles who simply never did anything defensively at all. But look at City, Fernandinho with Yaya looked good sometimes and awful at others. This was mostly because Yaya was exceptionally lazy about getting in position or tracking any runs. If a player isn't part of the system then they become an easy weakness to be exploited. Without Yaya but with someone who works harder the defensive solidity changes completely. KDB works harder defensively than almost anyone, he's got an absurd amount of tackles and is incredibly disciplined despite being the most creative player in the league.

Ozil has absolutely no excuses and frankly I don't consider him that talented. Footballers aren't good because they can do one thing well but every other part of their game is useless. A CB who is phenomenal in the air but utterly useless positionally is a bad defender. Ozil is someone who when under little to no pressure and has all the time in the world to pick out passes while paying zero attention to anything else picks out some wonderfall passing, but under pressure he crumbles completely, his passing goes to hell, he's woeful defensively, he's physically so weak it's embarrassing, he has a woeful mental strength, he's a poor shot who constantly passes up great chances to shoot. He has a couple of good aspects in his game, but so many poor ones. At best he comes out as an average player, the kind of back up you play against the bottom half but you play a better player against all top opposition. The two places he's had success (as in not been constantly mercilessly torn apart for such performances) were Real and Germany, both teams had exceptionally hard working players who took the pressure out of the game for Ozil to exploit but without those players Ozil would look a joke. For Germany it was Muller upfront who was just magic, chased lost causes and won a corner against Brazil leading to the first goal, chasing another lost cause into the corner and set up a goal for Schurrle out of absolutely nothing. Real had Bezenma, a work horse, but also Ronaldo and Di Maria who would counter at break neck speed but that meant the entire opposition was killing themselves to keep up with Ronaldo leaving lots of space for Ozil. If teams ignored Ronaldo/Di Maria and just put Ozil under pressure they would have been more effective in stopping them. Though still for me it's absolutely no coincidence that mostly the same side managed to win 3 CLs in 4 years after they replaced him for someone less showy but who was more effective when it mattered.
 
Soldato
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Now is the perfect time. Get Carlo Ancelotti.

I agree. I'd do it now as well as he is available. Gives him time to get plans together for what he wants to do in the summer.

Ancelotti has managed at big clubs. He understands the winning mentality and the requirement to get results.

I also think, we need someone strict with the players not another manager who will mollycoddle them.

I want to see someone come in and focus on getting the defence in order. We should be able to grind out results when needed.

Although Wrighty doesn't agree.
 
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Caporegime
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Lol, proper lost your heads lads. Arsenal have just been in a final and also got the Europa league run to go...you can't sack a manager like that.
No the only ones who have lost their heads are the fans that still think Wenger is the man for Arsenal;).

Who says we can’t sack him?? What’s the saying no player is bigger than the club?? In this case it should be no manager is bigger than the club, evidently Wenger thinks he is the be all end all of Arsenal. He will be the end all of us if he doesn’t get his **** together and get these players playing with some passion.

Of course it’s not convenient for us to sack him off now but I think come summer, Arsenal need to start looking at replacing Wenger seriously.
 
Soldato
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Summer is a different thing altogether, I'm not against fans/club/owners/Wenger sorting out the situation then, but near the end of a season, when you've just been a cup final, have also got the Europa League to come which they could potentially win.

So at the end of the season, you end with a situation where Arsenal have got back in the CL, won a European trophy and been in another final of a cup, would that not be a decent season? or is that a **** season in your view?
 
Soldato
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At the end of the day, league cup final or not, the top clubs are judged on their league position and I can't see them getting into 4th place this year. If they win the Europa cup then he will probably stay though.
 
Caporegime
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Ancelotti has been accused more than a few times of archaic methods. he's also recently only taken over great teams and done well, he hasn't stayed anywhere long term at all, he's not rebuilt any teams. He did okay at Real, he was a disaster at Bayern in comparison to how good they were before and since. Bayern have completely and utterly turned around since he got fired.

We need someone like Poch to start rebuilding Arsenal, not impose antiquated methods on a squad that isn't good enough. We need someone who can stay for a few years, start replacing the squad members who have to go and we've got pretty much anyone half decent in the defence is old enough that they need replacing within the next couple transfer windows probably and the rest need replacing because they aren't good enough.

Ancelotti is as far from the man for the job as I could think of. Besides getting fired constantly because he can't handle the teams for more than a season, the success he has is largely because he just isn't a giant **** and gets a fantastic squad. The Chelsea side lost faith in the guy before him (I honestly forget who that was at this point, was that AVB?) but they had a great championship capable team if someone got out of their way and that is basically all he did. At Real same situation, took over fantastic squad with a manager who had lost the team and they dropped off, all they needed was someone to not be a **** and they got back to where they were but longer term they got worse.

The reason he failed at Bayern was Guardiola didn't lose them, he intentionally left the job and Bayern were brilliant under him, training was fantastic and everyone loved him. There was no short term easy fix like not being a ****. He immediately took them backwards with poor training, lack of tactical preparedness for their opponents and everyone thought he was a joke.

Ancelotti will work great... for a single season... if and only if the side he takes over is fantastic but they are under performing because the previous manager lost the team.
 
Soldato
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4 finals in 5 years. A lot of clubs would take that. It's disgusting the way the vultures gather whenever we have a bad run, let the man get on with his job.

If he does go I want Patrick Viera to take over. Let's see the pundits try and bully him!!
 
Soldato
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Summer is a different thing altogether, I'm not against fans/club/owners/Wenger sorting out the situation then, but near the end of a season, when you've just been a cup final, have also got the Europa League to come which they could potentially win.

Arsenal are not mentally strong enough to be able to win the Europa League - they may be in the last 16 but against any reasonable team they would have been dumped out at home in the last round. The cup final was no excuse at all to select that squad against Ostersunds at home.

Personally I think the new manager HAS to come in now to get a real idea of what players he wants to keep etc - with the WC / shorter summer, I think any extra time the board can give a new manager will only benefit the club next season

4 finals in 5 years. A lot of clubs would take that

That's actually the problem with the league cup - for the winner its a boost for the rest of the season but for the losers (especially in Arsenal's current position) its something hanging over their heads and it will for some time yet.

No doubt, well done for the FA Cup successes but cant survive on that alone and Arsenal have been sliding into mediocrity for years.
There is also such a big gap between the CL and Europa, even with a new manager it will be hard to get the real quality of recruits a club the stature of Arsenal deserve / require to get back into the top 4 - or at least battle for it ......it might even be worth falling out of the Europa places entirely so you have just the UK cups and the league to worry about next season
 
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Soldato
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Arsenal are not mentally strong enough to be able to win the Europa League - they may be in the last 16 but against any reasonable team they would have been dumped out at home in the last round. The cup final was no excuse at all to select that squad against Ostersunds at home.

Personally I think the new manager HAS to come in now to get a real idea of what players he wants to keep etc - with the WC / shorter summer, I think any extra time the board can give a new manager will only benefit the club next season

Yeah, everyone said that last year before Chelsea, how did that go? Who know's if they'll win it, but, they're in it and competing, I don't know how anyone can say they won't win it. You don't know that, you can't say that with any confidence at all.
 
Soldato
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4 finals in 5 years. A lot of clubs would take that. It's disgusting the way the vultures gather whenever we have a bad run, let the man get on with his job.

If he does go I want Patrick Viera to take over. Let's see the pundits try and bully him!!

Micky Mouse cups don't count. Where has winning the FA Cup 3 times in 4 years got us?

No where! We are just as gutless and spineless as we where. Slipping down the league with out even a fight.

The only things that matter are the League and the Champions League. Anything else is just a step towards these goals.
 
Soldato
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Yeah, everyone said that last year before Chelsea, how did that go? Who know's if they'll win it, but, they're in it and competing, I don't know how anyone can say they won't win it. You don't know that, you can't say that with any confidence at all.
I'm not sure what Arsenal won last year has anything to do with it to be honest, and anyone in the league is no where near as difficult as some of the other teams still in the Europa

Yes I can say it with confidence because Arsenal continually show how mentally weak they are
 
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Unfortunately for Wenger football keeps evolving which is exactly what he has struggled to do over the past 10 years. Unfortunately I only see Arsenal going further backwards the longer Wenger is in charge.
 
Soldato
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Micky Mouse cups don't count. Where has winning the FA Cup 3 times in 4 years got us?

No where! We are just as gutless and spineless as we where. Slipping down the league with out even a fight.

The only things that matter are the League and the Champions League. Anything else is just a step towards these goals.

The new money in football has polluted your idea of success. Unless you are winning the league regularly like Chelsea and the Manchester clubs, cups do still count. You think Tottenham or Liverpool fans wouldn't enjoy a Fa Cup win?

Yes as a club we should be finishing higher, but not as a squad. We have been underfunded for over a decade now.
 
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