What book are you reading...

Finally read through all the current books in A Song of Ice and Fire and I am very glad it is over for now.
While it is for the most part very well written with some of the most engaging characters I have read for a while I can’t help but feel the whole ordeal has been overly long and a bit... pointless thus far.

I will read the final books when they are released just to see what happens but I can’t help but feel the whole series could have done with a damn good editing.

/Salsa

1) Nothing happens.

The prologue sees the "Others" return to the north bringing with them a sense of impending doom while the Black Watch huddling behind their wall the last protectors of Westeros. The other main storyline in the first book goes on to chart the rise of Daenery’s Targaryen intent on crossing the narrow sea to reclaim her kingdom.

7 books later and the Black watch have gone to investigate the Others, had their arses handed to them, poked one with a bit of glass and run away with their tails between their legs to huddle behind their wall again. Daenery’s is still across the narrow sea having faffed around for what seems like 100 years instigating genocide in between steamy liaisons with half the people she meets whilst rearing 3 dragons in dire need of ASBO's. Not to mention that she has been trumped by the arrival of Aegon returned, Jon Connington (Who?), who appears out of nowhere with a claim to the throne and is actually in Westeros, thus rendering the whole Daenery’s sub plot rather pointless. I suspect that Martin will kill off this character pretty quickly but that’s beside the point.

We are right back where we started 7 books ago!

2) Random killing off of characters

Martin kills of characters so often in this book that the plot tool loses all meaning and in some cases seems totally ridiculous.

Take Rob Stark for example. A classic storyline of son coming into his own and avenging his father. His character is maturing nicely; he has a purpose, a huge army, a bunch or decent battles under his belt and a sworn enemy in Joffery. Then Martin seems to run out of steam. The story stagnates with Jon sitting around wondering what to do next while banging the **** out of his underage bride. Martins answer to this storyline? KILL ALL THE PEOPLES! Oh but don’t forget to bring back his zombie mother using some magic that is so out of place it may as well have been Aliens.

Not content with one random death Martin pulls the trick again in the same book! Joffery's is the classic "Nero" story whereby he comes into his own after taking the throne and turns on his crazy, incestuous mother. Yet just while he is shaping up to become a proper villain the plot again runs out of steam (presumably because his nemesis Robb Stark has died) and its the good old "off with his head" scenario. Although his end was fittingly gruesome it all seemed a little premature. To make matters worse Martin brings back the same damn character in Ramsay Bolton a few books later.

Another interesting and well written character is the Hound. A mysterious and dangerous individual who is struggling with his troubled past yet seemingly on, an admittedly winding, path to redemption. Martin however decides to kill off this character, in a pretty half assed way, because he needs his helmet to further another boring plot line.


3) Too much padding and poor pacing.

Martin frequently goes into fantastic depth and complexity and while I applaud the skill which goes into such writing, he evokes fantastic atmosphere with his descriptive writing, a lot of it is simply unnecessary. One of the worst offenders for this is his description of sex. There is a strong sexual overtone which runs throughout that is overly gratuitous at times. Do we really need to know every time Tyrion gets a boner or how wet Daenery’s gets while dreaming of Dario? This is high fantasy not soft-core porn.

Then chapter after chapter passes and nothing much happens. I admit at times I began to despair that Martin had gotten lost in his narrative and simply forgotten about certain characters. Jon for instance becomes a major player when he takes over the black watch but we hear nothing about him for an entire book because there is so much else going on. Tyrion kills his father and sets off to meet Daenery’s which is a potentially very interesting plot development but two massive books later and he still hasn't managed a trip which Jon Connington (Yes him again!) accomplished in 2 chapters. Poor Hodor has been carrying Bran on his back for 5 books and if you are wondering what happened to Rickon then don’t hold your breath!
 
Finally read through all the current books in A Song of Ice and Fire and I am very glad it is over for now.
While it is for the most part very well written with some of the most engaging characters I have read for a while I can’t help but feel the whole ordeal has been overly long and a bit... pointless thus far.
I understand what you're saying, the books can certainly seem that way. I've read them more as a history of Westeros and this particularly turbulent time there, as opposed to a series of books with a obvious story from start to finish, and a few twists here and there.
 
I understand what you're saying, the books can certainly seem that way. I've read them more as a history of Westeros and this particularly turbulent time there, as opposed to a series of books with a obvious story from start to finish, and a few twists here and there.

This.

Additionally he doesn't offer the immediate gratification of most authors he plays the longer game like most of the better new fantasy authors. A lot you think you know turns out not to be true and a lot of inconsequential info becomes important.

It's not for all readers though.
 
Im all for the long haul when it comes to fantasy however the disjointed way in which Martin strings together his narrative really grated on me. He could easily have written the "Westeros Chronicals", which ASOIAF essentially is, as a series of trillogies for example. Instead we have some books following sequentially from eachother parts of others overlapping and places where events take place concurrently but it is not immediately obvious.

I diddnt like having to leaf back through 2 or 3 books to refresh my memory on what happened to certain characters only for their storyline to be cut short a chapter or two later.

Like I said I thought he writes well for the most part and his characterisation and atmosphere is great but a little abstact for my tastes.

Currently reading Alistair Reynolds - Blue Remembered Earth. Seems good so far!

/Salsa
 
Currently reading Alistair Reynolds - Blue Remembered Earth. Seems good so far!

/Salsa

I'm currently working my way through Reynolds stuff, just finished The Prefects which is superb, really loved his characterisation and my favourite kind of sci-fi writing in which the Author doesn't describe every new thing they introduce instantly, instead they expect the reader to have a rough idea of what they mean and then reveal details as the story progresses.

I think the best example of this I read recently was The Quantum Theif and The Fractal Prince by Hannu Rajaniemi.

Also read Terminal World but wasn't as impressed by it, the pacing is a bit all over the place and the characterisation is a bit poor. Just starting reading Revelation Space, great so far.
 
Last edited:
Just starting reading Revelation Space

Revelation space is probably his best work. I thoroghly enjoyed it some properly crazy tech in later books. Pushing Ice and House of Suns are both pretty good althouh the latter was a bit short. He certainly fills the gap while I wait for another decent culture novel ;)

/Salsa
 
Just finished reading the Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton - holy crap that's a big set of books - ideal for a Kindle though :p :D

Was pretty cool although I think the end was a bit of a cheat :p

Not sure what I'll read next, the wife is using my Kindle right now so taking a little break before I start on the next mammoth series lol
 
Just finished reading the Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton - holy crap that's a big set of books - ideal for a Kindle though :p :D

Was pretty cool although I think the end was a bit of a cheat :p

Not sure what I'll read next, the wife is using my Kindle right now so taking a little break before I start on the next mammoth series lol

Loved that series, agree the ending was a little average but everything else was fantastic. Strangely I have enjoyed nothing else he has wrote :p

Im all for the long haul when it comes to fantasy however the disjointed way in which Martin strings together his narrative really grated on me. He could easily have written the "Westeros Chronicals", which ASOIAF essentially is, as a series of trillogies for example. Instead we have some books following sequentially from eachother parts of others overlapping and places where events take place concurrently but it is not immediately obvious.

I diddnt like having to leaf back through 2 or 3 books to refresh my memory on what happened to certain characters only for their storyline to be cut short a chapter or two later.

Like I said I thought he writes well for the most part and his characterisation and atmosphere is great but a little abstact for my tastes.

Currently reading Alistair Reynolds - Blue Remembered Earth. Seems good so far!

/Salsa

Must admit that I agree about how he has set the books out and things taking place concurrently over multiple books. I have no issue with jumping back and forth a bit but it did feel a little poorly put together at times.

Also hate his dead end, pointless story arcs (the Dorne prince getting 10 or so chapters just to open a door?!?!? /sigh)

I'm actually quite critical of GRRM and I don't think he's as good as the hype but it is still a very impressive body of work (but nothing on the vastly underrated Malazan series, now that is epic fantasy as it should be)
 
I'm really enjoying the Black Company books at the moment, sort of reminds me of the Malazan ones as they both follow a group of soldiers/mercenaries :)

The Malazan books were really good as well for the most part, but suffered from occasional "I've no idea what's going on right now" phases, especially when the gods got involved in it.
 
Last edited:
I'm really enjoying the Black Company books at the moment, sort of reminds me of the Malazan ones as they both follow a group of soldiers/mercenaries :)
Nice, think I'll give these a go next then :)

Also got John Steakley's Armor to read which seems like a good one.
 
Spoiler me it please, I would love to be enlightened.

It is hardly the best story arc of the series, in fact it would rate somewhere near the bottom, but I would say it serves a few purposes:

1. Whilst reading about the rebellion of the Sand Snakes and Arriane in Dorne, we think that Doran is doing nothing at all and is basically an ally of the Lannisters. Quentyn's arc gives insights in to his plans(which are pretty poor really).
2. As you alluded to, he released the dragons, now two are up for grabs with at least one person just approaching Mereen looking to tame a dragon(Victarion) and Aegon needing a dragon as well. Also shows that dragons aren't gonna be tamed easily;)
3.The big one- It has big ramifications for Daenerys when she lands in Dorne expecting them to welcome her! ...we know form the Winds of Winter sample chapters that Doran has basically now thrown his lot in with Aegon, so this could be a crucial part of what everyone expects will come next- Aegon vs Daenerys. The 2nd 'Dance with Dragons'
4. Another example of how politically inept Daenerys is.
5. Also factor in another theme of a character- Barristan's honour....he sent the other guys back to Dorne with Quentyn's bones(I think) and to tell them what had happened to Quentyn...I can't imagine he will have much nice to say about Daenerys and the way he was treated.
6. Yet another deconstruction of the fantasy genre- Young Prince tames a dragon, sweeps the princess off her feet and returns home a hero....nope! Oh and it is one of those ridiculous prophecies as well I think. Something about the "Sun rising in the west and setting in the east"
7. An insight in to the workings of the sellsword companies, and also a few new locations


PS. I am not a big fan of his story arc tbh, but it is not irrelevant. Mostly because of the rift it opens between Dorne and Daenerys, which will make them more likely to accept Aegon at face value without questioning his authenticity too much. I definitely would have shortened a chapter or two though. ADWD is too long already!...There are a few POVs that I would class as irrelevant(Damphair, Areo Hotah), but I wouldn't count this as one of them tbh.
 
Last edited:
I think I was about halfway through a Feast for Crows when I realised that Martin was essentially writing a medievel Eastenders.
Characters come, they have crappy things happen to them and then they die. Sometimes spectacularly.
I don't expect there will be a grand heroic resolution anymore. I think Martin will keep turning the handle until he can't write any longer at which point the publisher may employ a writer to tie things up in an unsatisfactory manner or (and this seems more likely) have a Westeros franchise regularly releasing novels to the diehard fans by guest writers.

Edit: I'm about 100 pages into Death of Kings the most recent of Bernard Cornwell's Alfred the Great novels. Another book, another Danish Warlord for Uhtred the invulnerable to outsmart. And probably allow to escape. It's like a superhero comic.
 
Last edited:
I'm actually quite critical of GRRM and I don't think he's as good as the hype but it is still a very impressive body of work

There is no doubt that Martin is far from perfect. I've said before (perhaps here) that he is a horrible fantasy author, with some real Harry Potteresque magic tricks which smell horribly like get-out-of-plot-jail-free cards.

I will never, ever, ever forgive him for the "magic door under the wall", or for the way Renly was killed, or even for two dimensional white walker zombie boogiemen. Lazy, lazy, lazy writing.

However he writes the best characters in the history of the genre (and perhaps any other genre!). So I can forgive him absolutely everything for the rich, deep, satisfying complexity of the first few books, and for the long, wandering slog which eventually leads to the gloriously crafted revelation that is Feek. And I was happy to read an entire book just to finally see a glimpse of Littlefinger's masterplan, and Cersei's... well, the stuff that happens to Cersei. :-)

Ultimately what I realised during book 4 is that I don't really care where these characters are going, because it's quite likely to be a bit of a disappointment (especially if he snuffs it before finishing, and I don't want Brandon Sanderson finishing it for him!) I just enjoy spending time with many of the people he's created.

I say people rather than characters because to me it often feels more like observed history than contrived fiction. And to those who object to the killing off of good characters "just for the sake of it" I say you haven't read enough Gemmell yet. :-) I thought the Robb Stark arc was particularly well resolved. I hated it, but loved it too! He basically strapped TNT to the pillars supporting half his plot and hit the plunger, knowing it would make life hard for himself.

It takes bravery to write like that, and skill. I am in awe of his talent, and while I would love him to be an even better writer, I'll live with flawed and finished.

I will not, however, be dressing up or buy GoT Lego. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21856915 That's going just a little too far. Ok, a lot too far.
 
2is88cl.jpg


Currently reading: Robopocalypse
By: Daniel H. Wilson
Amazon Link

Roughly twenty years from now, a childlike but massively powerful artificial intelligence known as Archos comes online...and kills the man who created it. This first act of betrayal leads Archos to gain control over the global network of machines and technology that regulates everything from transportation to utilities, defence and communications. In the early months, sporadic glitches are noticed by a handful of unconnected humans - from a senator and single mother disconcerted by her daughter's "smart" toys, to a lonely Japanese bachelor, to an isolated U.S. soldier - but most are unaware of the growing rebellion until it is far too late. Then, in the span of minutes, at a moment known later in history as Zero Hour, every mechanical device in our world rebels, setting off the Robot War that both decimates and - for the first time in history - unites humankind.

Interesting in that the book starts from the end and is written more as a recount of events leading to and through the war as recorded by the AI. Only half way through, but it's been entertaining so far.
 
Just finished Part two of the Way of Kings. Fantastic book. Quite predictable in parts, but it really is fun reading. There were certainly bits that I didn't see coming (the revelation about who the Voidbringers really were for one).
 
Back
Top Bottom