What desktop speakers are you using?

[Tephnos]

A lot of manufacturers with rear firing ports state in their manuals to be at least a certain distance from the wall to avoid boomy bass, 20cm being typical though hence why I've generally avoided rear ported speakers as had them in the past. I know speakers like the R300/R3 are an exception as one of their uses is nearfield use at like a desktop but most aren't.

The manufacturers state that because they typically boost the bass and then you will run into issues with boundary reflections increasing the bass (+3dB near a wall, +6dB near a corner). However, it is trivial to EQ this out (and active speakers with shelving controls can do this, hence why they tell you that it is fine to slam the speaker right up against the wall).

This has nothing to do with the ports, however. (And I'd trust Genelec's take on this issue as they are a purely science and engineering first over all else company, no BS from them). A much bigger issue is SBIR, where reflections from the wall behind the speaker will completely null and cancel out a certain frequency - you cannot EQ this. You have two options - have the speaker a good couple of metres away from the wall, where the cancellation frequency is below the human hearing range. The next best option is to have the speakers as close to a wall as you can get, bringing the cancellation frequency to a region where you can treat it by putting some acoustic foam or whatever on the wall behind the speaker.

There is an awkward range where the cancellation frequency is in the regions you can hear, but cannot treat it without significant bass trapping. This is what you want to avoid because no amount of EQing will fix it.

Edit: Take a look at this https://www.genelec.com/monitor-placement

 

[mrk]

Perhaps my setup has just been lucky then as there seems to be no issue with either side being affected with this setup and I haven't used any EQing on speaker setup since the NAD C 320 bee days as prefer not having to EQ anything that isn't a phone. It just sounds clean, wide, with rich bass in the current setup. Realistically the main reason wanting to /upgrade/ is because of that new thing itch and to get away from the slight indents in the alu cones on the Q300s (to this day still no idea how they formed but have seen others who had other random cone defects that suddenly happened on the same speakers).

Plus they are getting on a bit now as mentioned before, 2011 speakers with what I think are gen 1 or gen 2 Uni-Q, they are now on the 12th gen that's how old they are!

 

[Tephnos]

Perhaps my setup has just been lucky then as there seems to be no issue with either side being affected with this setup and I haven't used any EQing on speaker setup since the NAD C 320 bee days as prefer not having to EQ anything that isn't a phone. It just sounds clean, wide, with rich bass in the current setup. Realistically the main reason wanting to /upgrade/ is because of that new thing itch and to get away from the slight indents in the alu cones on the Q300s (to this day still no idea how they formed but have seen others who had other random cone defects that suddenly happened on the same speakers).

Plus they are getting on a bit now as mentioned before, 2011 speakers with what I think are gen 1 or gen 2 Uni-Q, they are now on the 12th gen that's how old they are!

I thought you mentioned you had some kid relatives over that poked about with the drivers, no? Maybe I misremembered, lol.

All I'll say is I ended up regretting getting rid of my Q300s. The itch for something new is always there, but sometimes it is best if it stays an itch!

I've personally tried out some ELACs (including their earlier debut reference) and while good, was nothing too special to me IMO.

 

[mrk]

I've always maintained it was one of the nephews being curious, but that was when it only happened to one speaker cone. Years later I've noticed it on the 2nd speaker too, very similar indent of similar length and style and that's in the last couple of years since covid, they have not been round over that period so I kinda have to accept that it's some weird phenomenon with the way the cone is designed or something, That lead me to looking online and finding that others have had some strange stuff happen to their Q300s too and that maybe explains why later models have splined alu cones vs purely plain.

Looking at high res close ups of the Elacs, I think you can tell they are made in China because you can see glue seams between the speaker cone and rubber surround - Something you don't see on the Kefs etc. Not a bother but it's a detail worth mentioning, and the roughness that's behind the tweeter grille. Their 3-way crossover seems to be universally praised for being super robust though.

Having had a couple of doubts, I don't think I will be ordering the Elacs just from a fit and finish point of view. I'll just stick to what i know best and stay Kef. Once the Q300s are completely out of action I'll make the jump.

 

[Tephnos]

I've always maintained it was one of the nephews being curious, but that was when it only happened to one speaker cone. Years later I've noticed it on the 2nd speaker too, very similar indent of similar length and style and that's in the last couple of years since covid, they have not been round over that period so I kinda have to accept that it's some weird phenomenon with the way the cone is designed or something, That lead me to looking online and finding that others have had some strange stuff happen to their Q300s too and that maybe explains why later models have splined alu cones vs purely plain.

Looking at high res close ups of the Elacs, I think you can tell they are made in China because you can see glue seams between the speaker cone and rubber surround - Something you don't see on the Kefs etc. Not a bother but it's a detail worth mentioning, and the roughness that's behind the tweeter grille. Their 3-way crossover seems to be universally praised for being super robust though.

Having had a couple of doubts, I don't think I will be ordering the Elacs just from a fit and finish point of view. I'll just stick to what i know best and stay Kef. Once the Q300s are completely out of action I'll make the jump.

Hate to tell you, but KEF manufacturers all their stuff in China too, only the Reference series is hand-built in England! Although, KEF do own their own factories, so have much more control over the standard of stuff coming out of the factory.

Also interesting, I never had anything happen to my Q300s for the years I owned them. Maybe you play em too loud?

 

[mrk]

Oh I know for sure, but their quality control is... under their control as you say, hence the fit and finish is always top shelf.

The volume never goes above -20dB on the NAD in extreme cases, and that's only when a song come on that really slaps Otherwise the highest volume I ever listen on is around the -38 mark all week round. It could be ambient climate conditions though, sometimes this room gets so cold but quickly changes to hot depending on house activity and what the thermostat is doing.

 

[Tephnos]

Pretty sure I kept mine around -45dB or so when I had them so that is already way louder!

 

[233]

still using a set of edifier R1600Ts bought from here many many many years ago now

 

[mrk]

Pretty sure I kept mine around -45dB or so when I had them so that is already way louder!

The volume level isn't as linear as the dial number would suggest though too remember, shouldn't be a factor in the weird cone thing though, the speakers are well geared to take very high volume levels so unless it's a batch defect of some kind who knows. It's well out of warranty as Richer Sounds said they can typically sort issues out within 6 years. Looks like I reached out a couple years too late from the time of purchase

 

[Tephnos]

The volume level isn't as linear as the dial number would suggest though too remember, shouldn't be a factor in the weird cone thing though, the speakers are well geared to take very high volume levels so unless it's a batch defect of some kind who knows. It's well out of warranty as Richer Sounds said they can typically sort issues out within 6 years. Looks like I reached out a couple years too late from the time of purchase

The thing I miss most about passive speakers and an amp (now on actives) is how granular the volume knob was. I don't like messing with volume digitally as Windows volume control is crap and reduces dynamic range, so let me do it on the speaker without it reaching ear deafening levels by 9 o'clock!

 

[mrk]

Working late tonight...

I think I will feel the same if I move don from the Q300s. I think they are the E46 M3 of speakers perhaps even, once you move on, you regret moving on, likewise everyone I know that had an E46 M3 has regretted the sale and misses the car, whilst not the fastest by today's standards, has a charm and quality that is hard to beat for the money.

I think what I will do is take many of your guys points and get a subwoofer. I have a footstool under the desk at the moment and I realise I can just take off the lid to it and place it on top of the sub which now becomes my new footstool - Thus consuming zero extra space.

The BK Gemini II was mentioned earlier, although am open to suggestions of other 10" subs. I'd be after one that has no ambient buzz or hum, has an auto on/off feature and has the necessary controls for crossover etc, basically what the BK has would be ample.

 

[Rroff]

still using a set of edifier R1600Ts bought from here many many many years ago now

Same still using the 1600s for PC audio, when I use speakers.

has a charm and quality that is hard to beat for the money.

There often seems to be a peak for any product where a certain product(s) has an "X" factor because it was made by people who had a passion/cared and/or was pushing out the boat to make a halo product, etc. and while later products might be superior on paper specs, etc. are made for the sake of making a product and missing a certain something. Sometimes you get a resurgence of that when there is an "arms race" between manufacturers or an exciting new technology comes along but between that products are often stale even when technically better.

 

[Random Guy Esq.]

@mrk You have the NAD D3045, right? I see one available in my local second hand classifieds, and I'm sorely tempted!

If I'm right, it would allow me to connect PC, PS5 (by way of HDMI optical adapter), and Switch all to one small desktop unit, and switch seamlessly between them with both headphones and quality passive speakers?

 

[mrk]

Same still using the 1600s for PC audio, when I use speakers.

There often seems to be a peak for any product where a certain product(s) has an "X" factor because it was made by people who had a passion/cared and/or was pushing out the boat to make a halo product, etc. and while later products might be superior on paper specs, etc. are made for the sake of making a product and missing a certain something. Sometimes you get a resurgence of that when there is an "arms race" between manufacturers or an exciting new technology comes along but between that products are often stale even when technically better.

Hmm that is very true, The Q300s were never a part part of the halo line of course but I guess that doesn't stop them from being excellent. Word online is that the Q100 are considered better because of the way the driver excursion behaves against the tweeter (acoustically) but as it's a smaller woofer cone, you'd want a sub with that for sure as you lose bass extension that the Q300 has negating the need for a sub in the same situations.

I#ve been playing more new music I've discovered and will not be buying a sub I have decided and will just save the cash for a future upgrade, most likely the R3 once the Q300s have had it as originally planned

@mrk You have the NAD D3045, right? I see one available in my local second hand classifieds, and I'm sorely tempted!

If I'm right, it would allow me to connect PC, PS5 (by way of HDMI optical adapter), and Switch all to one small desktop unit, and switch seamlessly between them with both headphones and quality passive speakers?

What sort of price is it going for? Yeah it's the D 3045 I have and indeed you could have that exact setup You can cycle the inputs as: HDMI ARC, Line 1, Line 2, Phono, Bluetooth, Optical 1, Optical 2,Coax (digital) and Computer (USB)

It is a superb little amp but with big power. Windows sees it by default as a 24/96 output device so I've just left it at that although some say you should use 24/48 as most content is in the 48KHz rate anyway like bluray, games, other movies and even higher res music. I've not noticed much difference however. Just be sure to set Windows sound output for the speakers to full range as they are set to limited range by default.

 

[Random Guy Esq.]

What sort of price is it going for? Yeah it's the D 3045 I have and indeed you could have that exact setup You can cycle the inputs as: HDMI ARC, Line 1, Line 2, Phono, Bluetooth, Optical 1, Optical 2,Coax (digital) and Computer (USB)

It is a superb little amp but with big power. Windows sees it by default as a 24/96 output device so I've just left it at that although some say you should use 24/48 as most content is in the 48KHz rate anyway like bluray, games, other movies and even higher res music. I've not noticed much difference however. Just be sure to set Windows sound output for the speakers to full range as they are set to limited range by default.

They're looking for €550 for it. Brand new would cost €720ish, not including delivery to Ireland.

That's great info, thanks! How is it with headphones? And is the surface as much of a dust magnet as I suspect?

 

[mrk]

No dust magnet like previous models had that dust magnet rubbery material but the 3045 is just plastic and easy to wipe etc.

Headphones you'll power high end cans easily

 

[Random Guy Esq.]

No dust magnet like previous models had that dust magnet rubbery material but the 3045 is just plastic and easy to wipe etc.

Headphones you'll power high end cans easily

Great, thanks mrk. Going to pull the trigger this evening!

 

[ProStreet]

Klipsch promedia heritage just got them today, has a sub too

 

[JasonM]

Same still using the 1600s for PC audio, when I use speakers.

I use to own some Edifier 1600Ts, they were very good for what they cost (£50), however compared to professional Bi-amped studio monitors there is no comparison. I sold the Edifiers, once you get better gear you realise Edifiers are very consumer sounding.

 

[Tephnos]

Working late tonight...

I think I will feel the same if I move don from the Q300s. I think they are the E46 M3 of speakers perhaps even, once you move on, you regret moving on, likewise everyone I know that had an E46 M3 has regretted the sale and misses the car, whilst not the fastest by today's standards, has a charm and quality that is hard to beat for the money.

I think what I will do is take many of your guys points and get a subwoofer. I have a footstool under the desk at the moment and I realise I can just take off the lid to it and place it on top of the sub which now becomes my new footstool - Thus consuming zero extra space.

The BK Gemini II was mentioned earlier, although am open to suggestions of other 10" subs. I'd be after one that has no ambient buzz or hum, has an auto on/off feature and has the necessary controls for crossover etc, basically what the BK has would be ample.

Sub?

Time to get those LS50 Metas again.

Edit: dammit you are too bipolar