What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?

[Tinek]

if small devs like these can push out amazingly optimised games running UE5 like this, then AAA devs should have no problem at all, which leads me to wonder what CDPR will cook up for Cyberpunk 2 and Witcher 4

Now sadly more and more AAA publishers say single player big games are not profitable enough (and are a very risky investment), hence we should not expect them in the future anymore. Such big AAA games will become a rarity, it seems. Instead, it's all about live services riddled with micro transactions now, as they are much less risky to create and bring in much more money. One is the reasons we see so many people fired and studios closed after a bunch of big AAA titles flopped.

Which is very good to see indies can handle UE5 well, as that might be the only source of good games soon enough.

 

[TNA]

Now sadly more and more AAA publishers say single player big games are not profitable enough (and are a very risky investment), hence we should not expect them in the future anymore. Such big AAA games will become a rarity, it seems. Instead, it's all about live services riddled with micro transactions now, as they are much less risky to create and bring in much more money. One is the reasons we see so many people fired and studios closed after a bunch of big AAA titles flopped.

Which is very good to see indies can handle UE5 well, as that might be the only source of good games soon enough.

If that happens it will mean I won't upgrade my GPU as often. Can do a mrk and get a top dog GPU and keep it for 5 years maybe

Nah, still rather get a middle of the pact one and upgrade every 2 years. Would work out cheaper and you end up with fresh gear every 2 years

 

[Nexus18]

Surprised. Thought you would go left

Now @mrk get in there and give us your opinion!

Haha I like good visuals regardless of RT or raster Ghost of tsumahi for example is stunning looking even though the textures aren't the best and some of the raster implementation leaves a lot to be desired but it works well for the art style and setting of the game, granted, with even some RT for the shadows, AO and GI, it would look even better.

Shall we do a deep dive? I think a deep dive is in order.....

Litter on 1 has unusual illumination in areas of the box that should be in dark shadow because no light source is casting light on those sides:

The emissive ceiling light is amber toned, on 1 the light source is not casting GI on the surrounding concrete structure of the ceiling, it is on 2:

The underside of this ceiling is in an area that has no bounced surface lighting cast off the ground or anywhere else so should be fully shadowed, it is not in 1, so 1 would be the raster as raster isn't clever enough to account for this:

Scaffolding reflections are missing on 1 vs 2:

The edging of the concrete structure is missing a shadow run where less light hits that face of the beam on 1:

Pavement ledge, the 90 degree facing part of the pavement faces light sources and should be illuminated this time round, but the raster in 1 is painting this surface with shadow when there should not be a shadow. 2 is correctly lit in this instance:

The concrete wall has angled sections facing the sky so the flatter 90 degree bits of the upper wall should have a different shade vs the lower angled part that faces the sky. On 1 the entire wall is the same shade, 1 is the raster:

Once you've played enough games with ray tracing all of the above are immediately obvious and noticed even in motion. I guess we've become trained subconsciously to notice them too as something doesn't feel "right" with raster in every game now that has environments like this.

Bingo!

For me the 2 most obvious ones where the distance items lacking any AO or shadows and even just the road itself:

 

[mrk]

and even just the road itself:

Where we're going, we don't need roads.

 

[tommybhoy]

Its not worth that much i got £90 for mine, they were only sold on the grey market because you can't actually buy them, at all, not from CIG, not with real money and not in game.

I don't know what they are worth now, you would have to ask here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starcitizen_trades/

One sold for $350 3 days ago...

 

[SheepBeast]

RT isn't worth it for me on my card (3060 Ti). Most people are in a similar boat probably. It's obviously the future of game engines but it will be a number of years yet before it can entirely replace raster lighting. When that time comes it'll be a big leap.

 

[mrk]

Which is very good to see indies can handle UE5 well, as that might be the only source of good games soon enough.

I think the tables are turning for the better. Devs like CDPR who are big seem to have learned from past mistakes. I doubt we will see another Cyberpunk saga ever again, various higher ups at CDPR were outed after that and the game was on the brink of being a total flop because of the whole situation. It's almost certain another episode of that next time round will be something they can walk away from as the internet never forgets.

And with most devs now switching to UE5, and all the major vendors focusing on UE5 too, things can only get better.

So far we have a handful of UE5 games out, all running really well, IIRC Robocop was the first , all of them at launch ran well, minor bugs aside but overall optimisation and quality all excellent with stuttering issues well under control.

 

[Tinek]

I think the tables are turning for the better. Devs like CDPR who are big seem to have learned from past mistakes.

CDProject and Larian are practically indie - they publish their own games and aren't owned by parasite company of the kind of EA, Ubisoft etc. We can expect great things from them. The problem is with big publishers and sadly Microsoft joined that too.

And with most devs now switching to UE5, and all the major vendors focusing on UE5 too, things can only get better.

Engine is irrelevant to what I stated earlier - bad games full of money sucking mechanics even with prettiest graphics are still bad games. And multiplayer games along with live services that big publishers claim they are switching to whilst ditching big single player games, do not usually have great graphics either.

So far we have a handful of UE5 games out, all running really well, IIRC Robocop was the first , all of them at launch ran well, minor bugs aside but overall optimisation and quality all excellent with stuttering issues well under control.

And none of them made enough monies to make publishers happy at all, it seems. Again, engine doesn't make games good, which is why I'm paying more attention to Indies now and hoping they can handle it too, well enough.

And just by the way, what is wrong with Home World 3, I've not seen such badly working game for many years, where I sit on 20fps most of the time (GPU bored) in bigger fights... RT on or off makes 0 difference in it, performance wise for me.

 

[mrk]

It's probably poorly optimised which would not be a surprise

 

[Calin Banc]

I think the tables are turning for the better. Devs like CDPR who are big seem to have learned from past mistakes. I doubt we will see another Cyberpunk saga ever again, various higher ups at CDPR were outed after that and the game was on the brink of being a total flop because of the whole situation. It's almost certain another episode of that next time round will be something they can walk away from as the internet never forgets.

And with most devs now switching to UE5, and all the major vendors focusing on UE5 too, things can only get better.

So far we have a handful of UE5 games out, all running really well, IIRC Robocop was the first , all of them at launch ran well, minor bugs aside but overall optimisation and quality all excellent with stuttering issues well under control.

Has CDPR learned their lesson with The Witcher 3 moving to Cyberpunk?

Nope. I doubt their next game will do significantly better.

 

[Calin Banc]

I wonder if this is why movies set in space with CGI tend to look more "realistic" than movies set on earth with CGI. Maybe doing CGI in a space scene is just much easier than a scene on the ground with more complex lights, shapes etc

Space is easier to do for 2 reasons:

1) there is no atmosphere and in general not a lot to reflect light, so is easier than a complex scene with multiple bounces.
2) where not that used to how space should look since we haven't got there; on the other hand, we have plenty of experience with how things look around us on Earth.

 

[Nedb37]

What sort of GPU/System are people running for these sorts of pictures that are being shared??

 

[Grim5]

Has CDPR learned their lesson with The Witcher 3 moving to Cyberpunk?

Nope. I doubt their next game will do significantly better.

It is a bit harder to screw up game performance when you use unreal engine. Of course there are still games that manage to screw up but it's easier to get it right because the engine is so well optimized and there is a wealth of programmers who know how to use it, compared to various in house engines like CDPR was using

In house engines apart from usually having extra complexity and less optimisation in general; requires time and money when you're expanding. If I'm starting a new project today and I'm using UE5 I can put out a job advert and get 50 programmers who know how to use UE5 and can start work immediately. If I do an advert for cdpr's Red engine I'll get applications but none of them will know how to use the game engine and then have to spend 3 months training them how to use it

 

[Calin Banc]

It is a bit harder to screw up game performance when you use unreal engine. Of course there are still games that manage to screw up but it's easier to get it right because the engine is so well optimized and there is a wealth of programmers who know how to use it, compared to various in house engines like CDPR was using

In house engines apart from usually having extra complexity and less optimisation in general; requires time and money when you're expanding. If I'm starting a new project today and I'm using UE5 I can put out a job advert and get 50 programmers who know how to use UE5 and can start work immediately. If I do an advert for cdpr's Red engine I'll get applications but none of them will know how to use the game engine and then have to spend 3 months training them how to use it

As a counter point I'd put Hogwards in there, Immortals and the other game with a girl... forgot the name; Dark Space remake + Dark Space clone... forgot its name too

Not the least, Red Engine is not a stutter fest like UE5 is atm.

 

[humbug]

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition.

RX 7800 XT vs RTX 3070 Ti, 1440P Extreme, Ray Tracing Ultra, Reflections Ray Traced.

RX 7800 XT low point 48 FPS, high point 76 FPS
RTX 3070 Ti low point 48 FPS, high point 78 FPS

They are so similar its impossible to tell them apart...

 

[Grim5]

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition.

RX 7800 XT vs RTX 3070 Ti, 1440P Extreme, Ray Tracing Ultra, Reflections Ray Traced.

RX 7800 XT low point 48 FPS, high point 76 FPS
RTX 3070 Ti low point 48 FPS, high point 78 FPS

They are so similar its impossible to tell them apart...

Is that good or bad? I can't tell

 

[TNA]

Lol. What a weird comparison. Next we should do a 4090 vs a 6950 XTX.

 

[humbug]

Is that good or bad? I can't tell

Nvidia 2'nd gen RT vs AMD 2'nd gen RT.

Its nether good nor bad, they are comprable, i think what i will say is the 3070 Ti is what it is and its not bad for the RX 7800 XT given the latter is what everyone thinks can't do RT

 

[humbug]

Lol. What a weird comparison. Next we should do a 4090 vs a 6950 XTX.

How about RX 7800 XT vs RX 6950 XT?

 

[TNA]