What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?

[Nexus18]

Nvidia 2'nd gen RT vs AMD 2'nd gen RT.

Its nether good nor bad, they are comprable, i think what i will say is the 3070 Ti is what it is and its not bad for the RX 7800 XT given the latter is what everyone thinks can't do RT

Another way I would look at it is a 3+ year old cheaper gpu vs current gen dearer gpu..... imo, not a good showing.

Although metro EE is a fantastically well optimised game, the fact it runs better than the raster and rt hybrid version says it all about when RT is at the forefront

RDNA and even RDNA 2 can do RT, this has never been a problem or up for debate really, although granted RDNA 2 is basically next to useless for anything outside of extremely well optimised RT titles or settings considerably reduced (this is where as I predicted all along, RDNA 2 wouldn't age as well if you are someone who turns RT on, same way turing wouldn't age well being first gen at RT) where as ampere top end gpus can brute force it somewhat along with having the saving grace of better upscaling, which means less of a sacrifice in IQ.

I think given how much things have now swung in RT favour in terms of more and more titles using it, more titles using UE 5+, more games coming out with no fallback to raster, it would be wise if buying "now" to look at gpus where RT is stronger, obviously 7800xt/7900xt, top end ampere and current 40xx won't become useless overnight but like ampere vs rdna 2, you will see quite the gap appearing across a wider range of games the more RT becomes used.

 

[Noxia]

Can we do voodoo 2 Vs 1080ti.

 

[humbug]

60 RT cores vs 80, it would be interesting to see how much the per core RT has improved, i think that's more interesting than comparing 1'st gen AMD RT to 3'rd Gen Nvidia RT. We already know how that story ends, its a blood bath for the 6900 XT.

Another way I would look at it is a 3+ year old cheaper gpu vs current gen dearer gpu..... imo, not a good showing.

Although metro EE is a fantastically well optimised game, the fact it runs better than the raster and rt hybrid version says it all about when RT is at the forefront

RDNA and even RDNA 2 can do RT, this has never been a problem or up for debate really, although granted RDNA 2 is basically next to useless for anything outside of extremely well optimised RT titles or settings consideranly reduced (this is where as I predicted all along, RDNA 2 wouldn't age as well if you are someone who turns RT on, same way turing wouldn't age well being first gen at RT) where as ampere top end gpus can brute force it somewhat along with having the saving grace of better upscaling, which means less of a sacrifice in IQ.

I think given how much things have now swung in RT favour in terms of more and more titles using it, more titles using UE 5+, more games coming out with no fallback to raster, it would be wise if buying "now" to look at gpus where RT is stronger, obviously 7800xt/7900xt, top end ampere and current 40xx won't become useless overnight but like ampere vs rdna 2, you will see quite the gap appearing across a wider range of games the more RT becomes used.

Price for Price comparison then? Trouble is i can't find an RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB doing the same run with the same settings, the closest thing i have found is the RTX 4070, its about 10 FPS higher but its running DLSS quality so its not comparable, what i would say tho is if its running DLSS with 10 more FPS its not looking like the 4070 is any better. Agreed?

And the 4070 is more expensive.

Beginning..

GeForce RTX 4070 - Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition | 1440p - DLSS - Ray Tracing

PC Specs:AMD Ryzen 5 7600X: https://amzn.to/3ZU59vpASUS ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI: https://amzn.to/40TWzOIKingston Fury Beast DDR5 RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 5200M...

youtu.be

To where he changes the settings.

GeForce RTX 4070 - Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition | 1440p - DLSS - Ray Tracing

PC Specs:AMD Ryzen 5 7600X: https://amzn.to/3ZU59vpASUS ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI: https://amzn.to/40TWzOIKingston Fury Beast DDR5 RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 5200M...

youtu.be

The trouble is finding something that is apples to apples, the 3070 Ti i posted is.

 

[Nexus18]

Price for Price comparison then? Trouble is i can't find an RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB doing the same run with the same settings, the closest thing i have found is the RTX 4070, its about 10 FPS higher but its running DLSS quality so its not comparable, what i would say tho is if its running DLSS with 10 more FPS its not looking like the 4070 is any better. Agreed?

GeForce RTX 4070 - Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition | 1440p - DLSS - Ray Tracing

PC Specs:AMD Ryzen 5 7600X: https://amzn.to/3ZU59vpASUS ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI: https://amzn.to/40TWzOIKingston Fury Beast DDR5 RGB 32GB (2x16GB) 5200M...

www.youtube.com

Well yes price for price seems more relevant or equivalent gen for gen if you are wanting to compare technology advancement by both brands. I have no idea on the perf of 4070/4060 in metro ee but you are better of using a hardware site like hub, gamer nexus, df, computer base, pcgamerhardware, daniel owen, tpu to keep it a like for like comparison in terms of level run and rest of hardware.

 

[humbug]

Well yes price for price seems more relevant or equivalent gen for gen if you are wanting to compare technology advancement by both brands. I have no idea on the perf of 4070/4060 in metro ee but you are better of using a hardware site like hub, gamer nexus, df, computer base, pcgamerhardware, daniel owen, tpu to keep it a like for like comparison in terms of level run and rest of hardware.

I think live videos are better than bar charts, but i have looked but it seems they don't benchmark Metro Exodus anymore, TPU used to but they removed it for this generation.

 

[Deleted User 456458]

Damn. AMD cards didn’t even make the list for RT.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Damn. AMD cards didn’t even make the list for RT.

If a 4060 is the recommended for RT then no reason AMD cards shouldn't be on there especially since a 3060 is minimum. Most decent AMD cards will run RT better than those cards. Ultra RT on the other hand pretty much rules out every card bar 4080 Super and 4090.

 

[mattpj]

I’ve got a 3070 fwiw and a 11400f.

Most games run fine. I play mostly fps at 163fps and my only concern on that basis is getting the game to run as fast as possible. I don’t care if I have no shadows and grainy textures if it will help.

Of course, it rarely comes to that.

I like ray tracing, I do think it makes a remarkable quality in the image clarity and in terms of realistic lighting.

I’m just willing to forego it for performance. I know now there is more efficiency within the newer gfx cards with it but the trade off isn’t worth it for me.

I’m sure there will be an exception that proves the rule for me. A story based game where the frame rate just isn’t important.

 

[Proto]

With any reasonable Nividia mid range card, you can turn on DLSS performance at 4K and get acceptable RT performance at acceptable image quality assuming you can manage 60 FPS at 1080p.

The whole argument of clarity and VRAM goes out of the window when you actually look at how modern games work with necessary effects like motion blur, chromatic aberration etc., and with game engines now being deferred, which means that you end up accepting it for what is. You get games with TAA that look worse than DLSS, which is just the nature of how things are and not just a magic DLSS sauce.

Also, you need to be careful with Metro Exodus EE for checking performance, it has all sorts of bugs with things like random RT effects turning on and off.

 

[Tinek]

Most games run fine. I play mostly fps at 163fps and my only concern on that basis is getting the game to run as fast as possible. I don’t care if I have no shadows and grainy textures if it will help.

I've been on holidays for few weeks with just a "gaming" laptop on Ryzen 7 7k series and RTX 4060 with good power limits. I had to get used to 60 and lower FPS in games, to have sensible details (it's a really slow GPU for modern gaming, even in 1080p!) - coming down from 4090 was quite a slap in the eyes. I wouldn't even think about RT on that machine, even with DLSS on - to me it barely handles raster as is.

Though, oddly, I got used to low FPS faster than expected and it didn't bother me after just few hours, or not nearly as much as I thought it would. And within few days I didn't even pay attention to it anymore. But when I came back home, run same games on 4090, initially I had horrible "soap opera" feeling for 15+ minutes before brain adjusted to over 100fps. I didn't know that can happen with pc gaming, now I understand why some people see very fast pc and actually prefer lower FPS and refuse to play on said pc (like my wife, who prefer to play on Xbox) with just short contact.

 

[Bill Turnip]

With any reasonable Nividia mid range card, you can turn on DLSS performance at 4K and get acceptable RT performance at acceptable image quality assuming you can manage 60 FPS at 1080p.

Quite a few caveats in that. To be clear, I don't disagree, but that's exactly why I disable. My general preference is frame rate, then resolution, and RT is just lower on the priority list as things stand than those items.

 

[Nexus18]

Quite a few caveats in that. To be clear, I don't disagree, but that's exactly why I disable. My general preference is frame rate, then resolution, and RT is just lower on the priority list as things stand than those items.

DLSS perf at 4k is technically better than dlss quality at 1440p, that's why DLDSR and DLSS perf is better than dlaa/dlss quality at native 1440p and offers similar performance too, this is all thanks to the mess of TAA based methods of AA and some games that won't load in higher res. assets unless it detects 4k+

For me, my aim is to have at least 60 fps at the min, ideally 80 fps though but it depends entirely on the style of game.

 

[Proto]

Quite a few caveats in that. To be clear, I don't disagree, but that's exactly why I disable. My general preference is frame rate, then resolution, and RT is just lower on the priority list as things stand than those items.

Differences are completely natural. I can accept that.

I also don’t believe most people are professional e-sports players.

 

[Bill Turnip]

I'm definitely not - I'd be eviscerated!

 

[gpuerrilla]

I don't think anyone here claims to be one. Although saying that, plenty claim to possess professional knowledge or the issues don't happen on their settings.. so we have to be a little cynical.

 

[Proto]

You’ll never find a perfect solution.

Eventually, you stop searching.

 

[Bill Turnip]

I've been playing The Last Spell at 4k. I'll tell you now, if that's not technology wasted, nothing is.

 

[humbug]

If a 4060 is the recommended for RT then no reason AMD cards shouldn't be on there especially since a 3060 is minimum. Most decent AMD cards will run RT better than those cards. Ultra RT on the other hand pretty much rules out every card bar 4080 Super and 4090.

This, for example an RX 7700 XT is faster with RT in Cyberpunk than an RTX 4060, and an ARC A770 is faster than a 3060.

If those Nvidia cards are on the list then the Intel and AMD cards should be too, to me this looks like cynical choice.

 

[mrk]

People are forgetting that the the RTX cards utilise Ray Reconstruction and ReSTIR GI. These not only improve performance but also the visuals. None of the other vendor cards can do this so this is likely why only RTX is listed here in this context.

DLSS perf at 4k is technically better than dlss quality at 1440p, that's why DLDSR and DLSS perf is better than dlaa/dlss quality at native 1440p and offers similar performance too, this is all thanks to the mess of TAA based methods of AA and some games that won't load in higher res. assets unless it detects 4k+

For me, my aim is to have at least 60 fps at the min, ideally 80 fps though but it depends entirely on the style of game.

Keep in mind this only applies to RT, not PT, with PT you introduce noticeable input latency for the mouse camera movement. This is also exhibited in Unreal engine 5.4 (both Hellblade 2 and Still Wakes the Deep) whereby using DLDSR for 4K or higher (5160x2160) results in noticeable mouse camera latency, even with Reflex on, even with DLSS Performance. All due to the baseline pre-FG framerate being below 60fps but typically under 70fps. The baseline fps must be above this in order to not have a distracting level of mouse camera input latency, even with Reflex on. And that's on a 4090, so lower RTX cards have no hope. If you have a 1000Hz polling rate mouse or higher then the issue is immediately noticeable.

With just RT though and not PT included and non UE5.4 engined games, DLDSR+DLSS Perf is great for performance.

 

[mattpj]

I've been on holidays for few weeks with just a "gaming" laptop on Ryzen 7 7k series and RTX 4060 with good power limits. I had to get used to 60 and lower FPS in games, to have sensible details (it's a really slow GPU for modern gaming, even in 1080p!) - coming down from 4090 was quite a slap in the eyes. I wouldn't even think about RT on that machine, even with DLSS on - to me it barely handles raster as is.

Though, oddly, I got used to low FPS faster than expected and it didn't bother me after just few hours, or not nearly as much as I thought it would. And within few days I didn't even pay attention to it anymore. But when I came back home, run same games on 4090, initially I had horrible "soap opera" feeling for 15+ minutes before brain adjusted to over 100fps. I didn't know that can happen with pc gaming, now I understand why some people see very fast pc and actually prefer lower FPS and refuse to play on said pc (like my wife, who prefer to play on Xbox) with just short contact.

I do think the experience is all relative. At the moment, I'm mostly gaming on the PS5 - and I don't have a 120hz TV. I'm totally ok with playing at 60fps though I'm not playing first person shooters. It's all typical open world or sports games.

If I was to sit down and play a bit of CS2, which I haven't in months, then I'd just have to go for the higher frames.

Even though I'm so, so, so rubbish compared to what I used to be