Rumours are that MS is ditching xBox as a hardware all together and focusing on software only, making it run on anything (including Playstation) soon. Sony will likely keet to the PS as is, but then we go back to the point I made earlier here - consoles are home entertainment appliances. Which means silence, relatively small size, but over all as small price as possible. Silence, price and size means one can't put too big of a GPU there and APU-like solutions seem ideal, hence AMD holds the whole market for a while now. Putting in any bigger GPU with proper RT support would put a very high price tag and it would simply not sell. Hence, it's not going to happen anytime soon, I believe.
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What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?
- Thread starter Purgatory
- Start date
Caporegime
The problem is a lot of the US has atrocious internet which costs a lot of money. So not sure if the infrastructure is there yet.
I dare not to assume, hence I asked.
You linked the NVIDIA's list, so you made it a NVIDIA thing... I am not sure why you're deflecting towards me things you write (including the one higher)?
This topic is about survey'e results. Which is what I am commenting about and you're getting side-tracked. My point (again) is that currently RT is largely irrelevant for most gamers, as they survey in question (and few others) revealed - for few reasons, but mainly because it's not the right time for it yet, as GPUs that can run it well are too expensive. That's it. Hence the results we see. What I want is cheap GPUs for the masses that can run these things, so we can all enjoy the future - but that, I believe, is in the far future, still.
I care about graphics. I care much more about gameplay.Also, if not for work I'd not push for 4090 - it's a silly purchase for games alone (unless one really has loads of spare cash and nothing else to spend it on). I likely would be fine with 4070Ti (4070S would be fine speed-wise, but vRAM is meh), or AMD equivalent, though I started to like recent HDR magic from NVIDIA and wouldn't want to lose that now.
They're all still too expensive, but it is what it is.
After proper calibration using Windows HDR Calibration software by Microsoft, I have not noticed any issues with AutoHDR on Win 11 and my OLED monitor. NVIDIA one is still a bit better, plus it works in the handful of games in which AutoHDR refused to work.
As few people also wrote a few times in this thread, raster truly isn't going anywhere anytime soon. RT/PT/Lumen (and the likes) will be on top of it, as it is in UE5, but underneath it raster will still push whole geometry etc. One doesn't exclude the other, as is now. Also, I have already defined what I consider gimmick - again, bolted on top of raster badly implemented RT effects just to tick the box by devs, which is sadly still majority of games IMHO.
I linked nvidias list because it's the most up to date source we have of RT games, also, on that list, quite amusing as nvidia even have amds sponsored games listed there, tbf, they have got the section where it's ticked as "ray tracing" and not "rtx" though but again this is nvidias way to market ray tracing as their baby (misleading but it is what it is)
I know but it all ties together what people want and the reasons they don't, like I said in my OP, this is the most valid reason which is what the video does get to:
The reasons of it's just a gimmick, does nothing, no benefit are all tobe quite frank rubbish reasons and then leads onto my second point where I explain this:
You just have to look at the YT comments to see plenty of comments that fall into the second point rather than the first valid reasoning.
As it is, people have the choice to still turn RT off in 99% of games so I just don't get why it's frowned upon so much, why people don't want to see it included in games (especially when it's optional graphical setting for now) and for those who don't want to pay the premium for it, well there are lesser gpus and the older gpus are still pretty good and of course, amd are there to provide the slightly cheaper options....
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Associate
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If performance isn't up to snuff I'm not sure it's frowned upon, I think it's just turned off.
I'm not seeing lots of RT is bad, rather ignored.
On this, I can see cloud streaming/gaming becoming a more common thing for consoles some point in the future, the option/removal of the disc tray to digital only is the first step and I can see them gradually moving to games on demand platform. Nvidia geforce now ultimate has shown all these advantages of not needing to have a big beefy tower but alas, this is something that is a long way of too but it will happen in the world where digital content and ecosystem is king. In terms of internet, I can see starlink becoming more popular and more internet providers going this way.
Go have a look at the YT video comments, there are even a couple in here.
I already said earlier why people often don't want it - they can't run it, so it's just a marketing rubbing in their faces, making them feel worse, hence the hate in many cases. NVIDIA's fault mostly, as they turned it into a premium thing and it backfired in that regard. But also, because often in modern games RT is there to sell the product instead of it being actually a good game "Look, pretty graphics, buy!". First they should make a good game, then they can add RT and whatever else is needed, not the other way around, IMHO - one of the best examples BG3, very well made game with pretty enough graphics, sold very well, praised by most.
Soldato
I don't like RT...oh no, I love it!
It's the future, embrace it!
It's the future, embrace it!
So is this a case of people secretly wanting it and to be able to use it then? But until that time comes for them..... "it's a gimmick", "don't see a difference", "looks better without any RT" etc.
In which case, this article seems kind of relevant?
AMD FSR 3.0 has exposed the ugly truth about most PC gamers
From comments like "I don't want fake frames", we went, in the blink of an eye, to "My RTX2060 lives again, FSR 3.0 doubled my performance".
www.dsogaming.com
Again, this isn't necessarily aimed at you or others who have acknowledged the advantages and that it will eventually become the future, it's aimed at comments like this:
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Associate
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That comment echoes what a lot of comments have been here - it takes too much power to be worth it. The ends do not justify the means to many, and I get that.
Ok but that doesn't mean it's a gimmick just because people can't run it well....
Humans are a weird species!
This is more about the erroneous thinking that "They added so many RT cores to the GPU my raster now suffer!".Again, this isn't aimed at necessarily at you or others who have acknowledged the advantages and that it will eventually become the future, it's aimed at comments like this:
Associate
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It kinda does mean it's a gimmick to them. To be clear, I don't necessarily think it, but a gimmick would be something that adds limited value to a limited group... This sorts fits at the moment.
Vibrating controllers were a gimmick at one point, I seem to remember.
Vibrating controllers were a gimmick at one point, I seem to remember.
I've only experienced it in a few titles, and I don't yet have games such as Cyberpunk that show if off to a higher standard, so I do not have a well-rounded perception of it.
However, I'm quite confident that over a longer period, I would still take performance over relatively minor improvements to lighting (as in some games). Depends on the game/situation.
If there is performance to spare, though, I'll certainly enable RT to check out the difference and see how it fares.
However, I'm quite confident that over a longer period, I would still take performance over relatively minor improvements to lighting (as in some games). Depends on the game/situation.
If there is performance to spare, though, I'll certainly enable RT to check out the difference and see how it fares.
Associate
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I like it, it looks good most of the time. However, it should be turned off first if you're looking to increase framerate (before resolution or most other quality options).
If the framerate is borderline, use an optimisation guide to turn down/off other more useless graphics options (e.g. ultra volumetric fog), and see which you like the best.
If the framerate is borderline, use an optimisation guide to turn down/off other more useless graphics options (e.g. ultra volumetric fog), and see which you like the best.
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Associate
I've got zero interest in Ray-Tracing as i value high frame rates.
I notice HDR more in games than i do RT.
RT has it's place, but not just now for the vast majority.
I notice HDR more in games than i do RT.
RT has it's place, but not just now for the vast majority.
Associate
Not tried it once on my 3090, not seen any compelling use case to do so.
Associate
I still have the same thoughts as I did about phys X. From what I've seen it's just another fad, dose anyone think this will last longer than phys X?
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It'll replace raster down the line, but who knows just how far down the like that will be. Once consoles are more capable of it then it will be embraced more on the pc platform.
There will be no end of poor response to professional and amateur attempts to market raytraced games until the following ceases to be:
Extreme performance hit
Significant cost barrier
Completely irrelevant to gameplay
The principle of raytracing is nice, the reality of the current situation has the reception it deserves.
Extreme performance hit
Significant cost barrier
Completely irrelevant to gameplay
The principle of raytracing is nice, the reality of the current situation has the reception it deserves.
It's definitely not a fad, may be marketed to the point of being one, but it can look fantastic