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What do you think of the 4070Ti?

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That's just it though isn't it, if the venders were able to drop the previous gen sufficiently in cost they would be a much better deal in the current environment. But that's not the case. Previous gen are and have remained high since launch.
 
Did anyone genuinely believe prices would stabilise though?

The last few years have only demonstrated to Nvidia that "people" will pay stupid money for their cards.

I've seen so many posts saying things like "things will go back to normal when 4xxx series is released", clearly, it hasn't.

I won't be buying an Nvidia GPU anytime soon.
 
Besty said:
Having read some of the reviews, I am usually quite positive for what was a 4080 12GB card.

Going by the 4070ti Suprim X review, I will give a warning that I don't usually give.

Looking at the PCB for the Suprim X and the specification, its one of the biggest rip-offs ever attempted in the Desktop GPU market. As a laptop chip, the 4070ti has merit but as a desktop card, at this price, its crazy.

Look at the ghetto PCB on the Suprim X

PVvEO8al.png.jpg

Avoid this launch until Nvidia comes to its senses.

www.igorslab.de

NVIDIA turns necessity into a virtue: MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPRIM X 12 GB Review | Page 3 | igor´sLAB

Today I finally reveal the secret of the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti in the form of the board partner card MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPRIM X 12GB, which is the smallest Ada card so far. The near-full AD104 is…
www.igorslab.de www.igorslab.de
Click to expand...
Hahah. My previous post I said the 4070ti would cost ~30% more than the 3070/3060ti to manufacture, I was so so wrong. Based on that PCB, I'd say we're looking at near equivalent BoM costs.

For comparison, here is a an MSI 3060ti PCB:
front.jpg


Note the 3070 PCBs were almost always the same as the 3060ti with extra components population for higher power, bypassing, etc.

In terms of what is more expensive now compared to back in 2020:
  • +30% on PMICs and MOSFETs
  • -20% of DRAM based on greatly reduced demand and various manufacturers dropping prices (assumed based on GDDR4/5, GDDR6 pricing outside of my knowledge)
  • PCBs 0% change
  • Passives +10%
  • Manufacture and Shipping +20%-30%
  • 4070ti die is 20% smaller, however it is made on the TSMC 5nm node, which is more expensive. Expect cost parity in the current over-supply situation on cutting edge nodes.
So all in all, we're paying 100% more for a board that costs maybe 10% to 20% more to manufacture. What NV have done to get more performance is fantastic though. There is a true generational performance leap here, it just sucks we aren't getting the generational value leap.

Finally, the 7900XT is likely to have a much higher BoM cost (interposer, more silicon, more power, more memory, more complex PCB), and barely outperforms this slim and trim card. That is such a bad result for AMD and consumers...

EDIT: Saw a few mentions that this board is very empty and MSI are being cheap. I expect that MSI have a bunch of ancilliary circuits on the rear of the card that keep the top side de-cluttered, probably to make cooler designs simpler/easier to fit.
 
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BUDFORCE said:
Did anyone genuinely believe prices would stabilise though?

The last few years have only demonstrated to Nvidia that "people" will pay stupid money for their cards.

I've seen so many posts saying things like "things will go back to normal when 4xxx series is released", clearly, it hasn't.

I won't be buying an Nvidia GPU anytime soon.
Click to expand...
All the last few years have told Nvidia is that during crypto mining highs people are prepared to pay well above the odds for GPUs, the last 6 months however show once that ended the majority of people won't which is why their sales are at a 20 year low.
 
I'm surprised how well it's making the 7900XT look like a better chip than initial reviews thought. Even the Digital Foundry 4070ti review showed very good results for the 7900XT (if you listen to/look at the actual benchmarks, rather than the PR friendly intro/conclusion) - even in some RT results which was interesting.

Nvidia have stuck with their 'tier above' layering to keep selling 3000 stock - as per CES video. Very disappointing - and looks like the 'mainstream' 4000 series will be close to like-for-like in terms of perf to the chips they're replacing, with reliance on hugely misleading frame generation vs non-frame generation to display any uplift.
 
harmattan said:
I've seen quite a few reviews now (Guru3D, ahem) who put this card in a massively positive light without mentioning it abhorrent price. This is tantamount to writing "shill" on their foreheads.

We should, for good measure and posterity, start a list of reviewers who take this path.
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The 4070ti PCPer review (aka Nvidia PR Marketing team) says:

dQ6A56Tl.png.jpg

pcper.com

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Review - Featuring ASUS - PC Perspective

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Review - Featuring ASUS CES is upon us, and, for the first time since the GeForce RTX 2060 in 2019, NVIDIA is launching a new GPU
pcper.com pcper.com
 
I think people are right to discount DLSS3 when looking at this card and certainly anything below. The lower down the product stack the less relevant DLSS3 is surely. The frame generation becomes more unpredictable the lower the frame rate, so on cards like the 4070 were you could be getting say sub 40 fps rendered (@4k), the "guess " on the intermediate frame will be less accurate as more will have changed between rendered frames. We've all the seen the mess you can get on the inserted frames when the scene changes completely between the rendered frames, the lower the rendered frame rate the more this will happen, in this regard the DLSS2 AI upscaling of rendered frames is a better solution imo.
 
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kalniel said:
I'm surprised how well it's making the 7900XT look like a better chip than initial reviews thought. Even the Digital Foundry 4070ti review showed very good results for the 7900XT (if you listen to/look at the actual benchmarks, rather than the PR friendly intro/conclusion) - even in some RT results which was interesting.

Nvidia have stuck with their 'tier above' layering to keep selling 3000 stock - as per CES video. Very disappointing - and looks like the 'mainstream' 4000 series will be close to like-for-like in terms of perf to the chips they're replacing, with reliance on hugely misleading frame generation vs non-frame generation to display any uplift.
Click to expand...
I think it's neck to neck currently. 4070 ti looks more futureproof as it delivers 10% more perf on speedway (stock settings), native rt perf seems to be even going by Port royal numbers. Any discrepancy in specific games would be addressed through driver updates. And then you can do 100+ fps in msfs 4k with dlss 3. 7900xt might get a price drop but i still don't see that impacting Nvidia's prices. They probably underpriced in anticipation of price drop from AMD.

Edit: in multiplayer games the Radeon is delivering an unexplainable delta and that's being also extended to cs:go. This looks like a good ready reckoner
www.theverge.com

Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti review: a possible AMD challenger if the price is right

Nvidia’s latest RTX 40-series card impresses at both 1440p and 4K.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
 
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g67575 said:
It does look like the 7900 XT is the overall winner:

4K-p.webp


Surprisingly, then 7900 XT isn't that much behind the RTX 4070 TI in RT. Certainly, frame gen will help there.

AMD is definitely catching up, Nvidia's RT advantage is looking much smaller now:

7900XT manages average 1% lows of 75 FPS at 1440p with RT on.
Click to expand...

Not bad is it? :)

Ok sure the 4090 is an RT monster but Nvidia are not that interested in keeping that RT advantage lower down the stack.

From the Tech Spot RT performance i count 200 FPS 7900XTX vs 260 FPS for the 4080, its 30%, yeah pretty good lead.

The 4070Ti tho, not that compelling. + 7% on the averages and 13% on the 1% lows, the 7900XT is also 8% better at Raster. If AMD drop the 7900XT from its stupid $900 to $750, which is where it should be... IMO they will kill any argument for the 4070Ti.

XtCNkQo.jpg
 
all the nivida early AIB cards in the hands of reviewers have been ASUS. its interesting to see that. wonder if ASUS has replaced EVGA as far as NVIDIA is concerned in terms of key board partner
 
humbug said:
Not bad is it? :)

Ok sure the 4090 is an RT monster but Nvidia are not that interested in keeping that RT advantage lower down the stack.

From the Tech Spot RT performance i count 200 FPS 7900XTX vs 260 FPS for the 4080, its 30%, yeah pretty good lead.

The 4070Ti tho, not that compelling. + 7% on the averages and 13% on the 1% lows, the 7900XT is also 8% better at Raster. If AMD drop the 7900XT from its stupid $900 to $750, which is where it should be... IMO they will kill any argument for the 4070Ti.

XtCNkQo.jpg
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why would you buy any of the new card when the RTX 3090ti or 3090 is on par with them and can be had cheaper (2nd hand ofc)

nvidia and amd are both hand in hand fleecing us off. duopoly this is.
 
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I've no horse in this race, I fully intend to skip this gen but it feels like both AMD and Nvidia have lost their minds with the pricing. They have a lot of clever people so maybe I'm wrong, let's see what their sales look like in 12 months.
Longer term wouldn't be surprised if MS or Sony will do a deal with Steam or Epic and kick the bottom out of the gaming pc market. The requirement for iOS and Android to facilitate 3rd party stores could possibly be applied into the console space too.
 
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