Associate
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- 13 Jul 2009
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Garbage!
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Apparently it will be a full fat pcie 4 x 16 connection but it looks like a seriously underwhelming gpu for what is normally the biggest selling sku.
I had read rumours that the 4060 would only be 20% faster than a 3060 and I was skeptical about that because that would mean it was actually slower than a 3060ti but looking at the specs for the 4060 I think it may be true. With the specs advertised it would be approx half the speed of a 4070ti and that is not good for a mid range card.
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Caporegime
Yeah and oof.....
As I see it, it is a 1 trick pony. And not a reliable one at the moment. Either the pony can't perform its trick, or when it can, sometimes it is and other times it isn't quite good as the other time it performed it.
It will also become the inevitable standard, and inevitably implemented better, and more widely, and support will be common as muck in games and hardware. That in mind, other than for the novelty, the value being placed onto the current gen through it is not justified. There will be cases where it happens to 'game change' that one game that really matters so much to someone, but that is specific to that person and that scenario, not the mass market.
So the only time the proposition can be put forward in any compelling way is when framed against a previous generation that cannot perform the only occasionally applicable trick. That's only going to happen once, in its initial introduction. Which is why Nvidia will try to use it to recalibrate the consumer perception of price/performance.
It can't be leveraged again to show such disparity once it is ubiquitous and becomes an integral component of all gfx performance going forward.
While its perfectly within a businesses rights to try and leverage it, it is equally within the consumers rights to resist/not to be impressed by the manoeuvre.
It's interesting really, to see how much an effect the price of high end cards like the RTX 3080 10gb has on many other cards, a tier below or above it.
Seems like prices for the latest releases (AMD or Nvidia) are mostly determined based on how well 'new' cards like this sell (at the current price, which is around £700 or more).
From the consumers point of view (in theory), it's a case of waiting for prices of the still in demand RTX 3080 10gb to fall (e.g. to £600, or lower than MSRP). It's possible that it won't happen if production of these cards has stopped already??
Because even after 2 years, we are in the absurd situation that cards like this aren't selling for MSRP (nor is the RTX 3070) , presumably because people increase demand by purchasing at £700 (instead of buying a used card with a warranty).
Seems like prices for the latest releases (AMD or Nvidia) are mostly determined based on how well 'new' cards like this sell (at the current price, which is around £700 or more).
From the consumers point of view (in theory), it's a case of waiting for prices of the still in demand RTX 3080 10gb to fall (e.g. to £600, or lower than MSRP). It's possible that it won't happen if production of these cards has stopped already??
Because even after 2 years, we are in the absurd situation that cards like this aren't selling for MSRP (nor is the RTX 3070) , presumably because people increase demand by purchasing at £700 (instead of buying a used card with a warranty).
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Soldato
I'm not saying I support the decisions of Nvidia or AMD as far as pricing goes, just want to make that point up front.
But what were people expecting from the 4070 TI? Especially once it was pretty much known that it was the 4080 12GB. Did people expect 99% of 4080 performance for £800-900?
Or were people expecting current performance for £500?
The other point is, nobody is making anyone upgrade. And it seems lots aren't. This is probably the best option as it might just send the message to Nvidia and AMD that they can't just price the cards however they want and see the same sales as before.
There's also the option of going with the previous gen cards. Maybe the high pricing is in part to encourage people to buy the stocks of the old cards. If they price the new cards too well who's gonna buy all the old ones?
Again, I'm not a fan of the new prices, but I also wasn't a fan of the previous gen prices either, or the ones before that or the ones before that. I've not bought a graphics card for a good few years (until now).
But what were people expecting from the 4070 TI? Especially once it was pretty much known that it was the 4080 12GB. Did people expect 99% of 4080 performance for £800-900?
Or were people expecting current performance for £500?
The other point is, nobody is making anyone upgrade. And it seems lots aren't. This is probably the best option as it might just send the message to Nvidia and AMD that they can't just price the cards however they want and see the same sales as before.
There's also the option of going with the previous gen cards. Maybe the high pricing is in part to encourage people to buy the stocks of the old cards. If they price the new cards too well who's gonna buy all the old ones?
Again, I'm not a fan of the new prices, but I also wasn't a fan of the previous gen prices either, or the ones before that or the ones before that. I've not bought a graphics card for a good few years (until now).
Yup, but prices on last gen cards need to fall first, particularly on the still in demand Nvidia cards like the RTX 3080 10gb / other variants.
I guess this didn't happen because only a moderate amount of equivalent cards from AMD were produced (e.g. RX 6800 XT, that is still being sold ~£50 above MSRP).
The RTX 3070 is still above MSRP also, so this does not bode well for pricing of the RTX 4070 (non TI). I reckon, £600-£700 will be the MSRP.
It doesn't help that production of cards like the AD103 based RTX 4080 is seemingly pretty low. So, you get a lower teir (AD104) product introduced that can be produced in greater quantities, at lower cost, but priced too high (because demand is there for it still).
I guess this didn't happen because only a moderate amount of equivalent cards from AMD were produced (e.g. RX 6800 XT, that is still being sold ~£50 above MSRP).
The RTX 3070 is still above MSRP also, so this does not bode well for pricing of the RTX 4070 (non TI). I reckon, £600-£700 will be the MSRP.
It doesn't help that production of cards like the AD103 based RTX 4080 is seemingly pretty low. So, you get a lower teir (AD104) product introduced that can be produced in greater quantities, at lower cost, but priced too high (because demand is there for it still).
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It's always foolish to buy cards with all this extra branding, for only 1 or 2% higher GPU clocks. You don't neccesarily get a better cooler either.
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Soldato
This is just a thought, one i know nothing about but some of you lot here will.
Is it a possibility that Nvidia are trying to steer mid range and below GPU users towards there Geforce Now service???
My reasoning for this, high end cards will always be bought because people with plenty of disposable income want the best in gaming performance no matter the cost .
At the Mid range the user may only purchase a new GPU every 3-4 years so Nvidia offers 4080 perf for a monthly fee via geforce now and most likely makes more in the long run via subscriptions from those mid tier and below users.
again i know nothing on all this so dont shoot me!!!
just a thought
Is it a possibility that Nvidia are trying to steer mid range and below GPU users towards there Geforce Now service???
My reasoning for this, high end cards will always be bought because people with plenty of disposable income want the best in gaming performance no matter the cost .
At the Mid range the user may only purchase a new GPU every 3-4 years so Nvidia offers 4080 perf for a monthly fee via geforce now and most likely makes more in the long run via subscriptions from those mid tier and below users.
again i know nothing on all this so dont shoot me!!!
just a thought
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Associate
Harvard case study on business transformation incoming..
Associate
How bout a used 3090? Or if you are okay with speculation maybe prices will climb down next year but I doubt if it would go that low
Theres no pressure on Nvidia atm, their prices are better than competition (on paper atleast) and it sits in well with past gen. It's in the same ballpark as last gen flagship, guzzles significantly less electricity and cheaper in the first hand market
Soldato
The more you but the more you save lol...
It does look like the 7900 XT is the overall winner:
Surprisingly, then 7900 XT isn't that much behind the RTX 4070 TI in RT. Certainly, frame gen will help there.
AMD is definitely catching up, Nvidia's RT advantage is looking much smaller now:
7900XT manages average 1% lows of 75 FPS at 1440p with RT on.
Surprisingly, then 7900 XT isn't that much behind the RTX 4070 TI in RT. Certainly, frame gen will help there.
AMD is definitely catching up, Nvidia's RT advantage is looking much smaller now:
7900XT manages average 1% lows of 75 FPS at 1440p with RT on.
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Associate
I've seen quite a few reviews now (Guru3D, ahem) who put this card in a massively positive light without mentioning it abhorrent price. This is tantamount to writing "shill" on their foreheads.
We should, for good measure and posterity, start a list of reviewers who take this path.
People are not purchasing these cards at high numbers though and these prices are being kept artificially high especially when GPU sales are at a 20 year low.
What’s MM? Assuming it’s within competitor rules to say.
It doesn't matter, it's the profit per card sold that they focus on. They still can't produce enough high end GPUs anyway.
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As the saying goes there's no such thing as a bad product just a bad price, if it was priced at £600 i suspect the reception would've been OK'ish (ignoring the extremely dodgy marketing of 10x, 2x, performance increases and no footnotes on graphs).
At the £800 asking price (if you can even get one at that price) it's basically DOA, at the £900 it was going to be launched at when it was the 4080 it would've been even more dead. It's like the GPU manufactures just haven't woken up to the fact that we're in a post mining boom world with people tightening their belts.
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