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What do you think of the 4070Ti?

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ICDP said:
You know Nvidia marketing is winning when people compare this to a 3090Ti on price/perf, instead of the 3070Ti.
Click to expand...

Its even worse than that. The RTX3070TI,RTX3080TI and RTX3090TI were attempts for Nvidia to wiggle out of the pricing of the RTX3060TI,RTX3070 and RTX3080.

Whether you look at die sizes,hardware specifications relative to the top end,and even relative performance only its quite clear the price increase is even worse than Turing.

Even if AMD is not as bad,they sadly too have joined in. Even if AMD at least kept it's top end pricing stable,and actually bothered to reduce the prices of its RDNA2 dGPUs,unlike Nvidia didn't do with Ampere,the RX7900XT is really poorly priced too.

It has 87.5% of the shaders of the RTX7900XTX and 83.33% of the memory bandwidth for almost the same price. But the problem is the RX6800XT was 90% of the shaders of the RX6900/RX6950XT and 88.89% of the memory bandwidth of the RX6950XT and the same memory bandwidth as the RX6900XT! Even VRAM was the same amount. The RX6800XT is around 89% of an RX6950XT at qHD and it was even closer to the RX6900XT:
www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design Review

The AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design card not only looks great, but also achieves excellent performance, matching the GeForce RTX 3090, but at much better pricing. Because of good optimization and surprisingly good energy efficiency, AMD's thermal solution works very well, too.
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

TPU puts the RX7900XT as around 89% of an RX7900XTX:

The problem is the RX6800XT was a $650ish RRP dGPU. The RX6800 was around $580. So you have AMD adding another $250~$300 to the base RRP of what should be sold as the RX7800 or RX7800XT.

But Nvidia,is even worse as they took the RTX3070(if we are being charitable to Nvidia),or even an RTX3060TI(if we are being less charitable to Nvidia) and are adding $300~$400 on top.
 
Bencher said:
I don't know how the 3090 is relevant here. But yeah, the 3090 always was a terrible card, it had terrible value compared to the 3080.
Click to expand...

I think that is something we can all agree on, no matter how bad rdna 3/ada is for performance to price, at least it wasn't as bad as the 3090 and £1+k 3080 12gb/3080ti :cry: :D









Honestly don't know why people are getting so defensive over either nvidia or amd, both are taking their customers/pc gamer community for a ride with their pricing, shifting of tiers and there isn't a single thing anyone can do about it other than to not buy either and hope come next gen, prices drop back down.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Its even worse than that. The RTX3070TI,RTX3080TI and RTX3090TI were attempts for Nvidia to wiggle out of the pricing of the RTX3060TI,RTX3070 and RTX3080.

Whether you look at die sizes,hardware specifications relative to the top end,and even relative performance only its quite clear the price increase is even worse than Turing.

Even if AMD is not as bad,they sadly too have joined in. Even if AMD at least kept it's top end pricing stable,and actually bothered to reduce the prices of its RDNA2 dGPUs,unlike Nvidia didn't do with Ampere,the RX7900XT is really poorly priced too.

It has 87.5% of the shaders of the RTX7900XTX and 83.33% of the memory bandwidth for almost the same price. But the problem is the RX6800XT was 90% of the shaders of the RX6900/RX6950XT and 88.89% of the memory bandwidth of the RX6950XT and the same memory bandwidth as the RX6900XT! Even VRAM was the same amount. The RX6800XT is around 89% of an RX6950XT at qHD and it was even closer to the RX6900XT:
www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design Review

The AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design card not only looks great, but also achieves excellent performance, matching the GeForce RTX 3090, but at much better pricing. Because of good optimization and surprisingly good energy efficiency, AMD's thermal solution works very well, too.
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

TPU puts the RX7900XT as around 89% of an RX7900XTX:

The problem is the RX6800XT was a $650ish RRP dGPU. The RX6800 was around $580. So you have AMD adding another $250~$300 to the base RRP of what should be sold as the RX7800 or RX7800XT.

But Nvidia,is even worse as they took the RTX3070(if we are being charitable to Nvidia),or even an RTX3060TI(if we are being less charitable to Nvidia) and are adding $300~$400 on top.
Click to expand...
Is anyone buying die and vram just for the sake of buying die and vram? I hope not. Give me a 1mb card with a single shader that performs as good as the 4090 and cost 1k. Ill buy it. I don't care how many cores the gpu has, how much vram and how big the die is. I buy performance.
 
If the 7900 XTX was actually in stock at £999, then the 4070ti and 7900XT would be bad buys.

But just like RDNA2, where AMD clearly produced too few (see market share) they have done the same again, and they cost £1150 (in stock).
 
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markoboyo11 said:
It was......at you're expense. .

You seem to care a great deal that the 4070ti is seen as a better card than the 7900xt, I find it very amusing.
Click to expand...
I care a great deal about reality being seen as...real. I don't like people around me living in lalaland. If the 7900xt was the better card, and people were arguing otherwise, I would still be having this discussion.
 
@Bencher What do you think of the 4070ti? Not in relation to, or with reference to, anything else this gen.

Do you believe it is a good card? Do you believe the price is right? Is it positioned correctly against the previous generation, from a performance and/or price point of view?
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It's actually worse than that. Nvidia last generation made a GA103,but it only had a limited release in laptops.

So for desktop it was GA102>GA104>GA106.

This generation it is:

AD102>AD103>AD104.

So if we look at the relative tiers this generation:







Even in terms of pure performance at qHD,the RTX3060TI and RTX3070 were 60% and 69% of the performance of the RTX3090TI,and 64% and 74% of an RTX3090:

The RTX4070TI is 71% of an RTX4090 FE at qHD:

So the RTX4070TI in pure specs alone,is more like a pre-overclocked RTX3060TI GDDR6X with some more VRAM added on(with the die size of an RTX3060),with performance closer to an RTX3070(or an overclocked RTX3060TI).

So even being charitable to Nvidia,this shouldn't be more than an RTX3070 FE for the cheapest models,ie,under £500. Even then the relative die size is significantly smaller too,and GDDR6/GDDR6X prices have probably gone down a lot too.

All the people making useless excuses,like "specs don't matter" and so on,even if we look at relative performance from the TPU charts they can't spin how overpriced this generation is so far(even with AMD). Relative specs compared to the top end are a good indicator of relative performance and positioning. Now the reason why Ada Lovelace has huge coolers is obvious - Nvidia is clocking these as high as they possible can,to eek out every few percent of performance to justify the increase in performance. Nvidia conservatively clocked Ampere dGPUs to make sure power didn't go so high on Samsung 8NM.
Click to expand...

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Its even worse than that. The RTX3070TI,RTX3080TI and RTX3090TI were attempts for Nvidia to wiggle out of the pricing of the RTX3060TI,RTX3070 and RTX3080.

Whether you look at die sizes,hardware specifications relative to the top end,and even relative performance only its quite clear the price increase is even worse than Turing.

Even if AMD is not as bad,they sadly too have joined in. Even if AMD at least kept it's top end pricing stable,and actually bothered to reduce the prices of its RDNA2 dGPUs,unlike Nvidia didn't do with Ampere,the RX7900XT is really poorly priced too.

It has 87.5% of the shaders of the RTX7900XTX and 83.33% of the memory bandwidth for almost the same price. But the problem is the RX6800XT was 90% of the shaders of the RX6900/RX6950XT and 88.89% of the memory bandwidth of the RX6950XT and the same memory bandwidth as the RX6900XT! Even VRAM was the same amount. The RX6800XT is around 89% of an RX6950XT at qHD and it was even closer to the RX6900XT:
www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design Review

The AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design card not only looks great, but also achieves excellent performance, matching the GeForce RTX 3090, but at much better pricing. Because of good optimization and surprisingly good energy efficiency, AMD's thermal solution works very well, too.
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

TPU puts the RX7900XT as around 89% of an RX7900XTX:

The problem is the RX6800XT was a $650ish RRP dGPU. The RX6800 was around $580. So you have AMD adding another $250~$300 to the base RRP of what should be sold as the RX7800 or RX7800XT.

But Nvidia,is even worse as they took the RTX3070(if we are being charitable to Nvidia),or even an RTX3060TI(if we are being less charitable to Nvidia) and are adding $300~$400 on top.
Click to expand...
Bencher said:
Is anyone buying die and vram just for the sake of buying die and vram? I hope not. Give me a 1mb card with a single shader that performs as good as the 4090 and cost 1k. Ill buy it. I don't care how many cores the gpu has, how much vram and how big the die is. I buy performance.
Click to expand...

I did analysis of:
1.)Relative dGPU tiers
2.)Relative die sizes
3.)Relative hardware specifications vs the top
4.)Relative performance vs the top

The new generation fails in all these measurements,against the last generation in the sub £1200 market. Most dGPUs on Steam are under £1200,and the vast majority are under £600.

These are technical measurements,as we are on a HARDWARE forum,ie,"Overclockers UK" not some random gaming forum. But even on a non-technical forum(I mean that as a one more dedicated to gaming not hardware),even they can see how overpriced this generation is:
www.resetera.com

Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti (formerly RTX 4080 12GB) launches on Jan 5th at $799 PC

Note: The "Faster than RTX 3090 Ti" claims that Nvidia makes are supported using DLSS 3, a feature RTX 3090 Ti does not have. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-4070-ti/ Ready for $499 RTX 4060?
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Reddit even thinks the same. Literally all of my gaming mates,who don't even follow things that much can see how overpriced it is.

For the last 20+ years people have been looking at technical measurements on this forum. If you don't want to look at reviews,technical measurements,etc then this clearly not the part of the forum for you!

But however any way you try to look at it,the reality this generation is overpriced. Just like all the people who defended Turing MK1 as fine,until the Turing MK2 refreshes came out due to a poor reception(and generally probably not so great sales). This is more of the same,and if Nvidia ends up refreshing these with much better value replacements,you are going to look a tad foolish.

Just because a company releases "something" does not mean it is worth buying or even decent value. FOMO is just a marketing trick used to sell things. Also this relativism also is not even worth it just like the relativism in politics where you can have a Hobson's choice. Both companies can release overpriced or useless products.

IMHO,both can stick their prices! I said the same about Zen4 and so did many too,despite people defending the prices. AMD now had to essentially price cut their whole Zen4 CPU range,offer stock coolers and are now talking of "cheaper" motherboards. FOMO just ends up not serving a consumers interests in scenarios like this.
 
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Bill Turnip said:
@Bencher What do you think of the 4070ti? Not in relation to, or with reference to, anything else this gen.

Do you believe it is a good card? Do you believe the price is right? Is it positioned correctly against the previous generation, from a performance and/or price point of view?
Click to expand...
I think that considering everything is way more expensive than it used to be 2 years ago, the price is okayish. It should be about a 100€ cheaper, but 100€ extra for a product you buy every 2 to 4 years is fine. My electricity bill has increased 100 euros per month, so it doesn't bother me that much that the 70ti is a little bit overpriced since I don't have to pay that monthly like I do with everything else that is overpriced right now.

Personally I would never pay 800 to 900€ for basically a middle of the pack card, that's why I went for the 4090, but if people have about 800 to spend, then the 4070ti is the best card they can get right now - and it's not a total ripoff like it's competitor.
 
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