Soldato
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- 14 Aug 2009
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It ends when potential buyers run out of money or they band together, get some self control and stick to a principle to stop enabling the price hikes.
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What do you think of the 4070Ti?
- Thread starter Teeeeee
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Cool. Next time i need more performance, ill give you my old card and you will give me a better performing card for free.
Because keeping my existing card isn't gonna give me more performance.
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I used to be able to buy new gen at similar pricing to its last gen and getting increased performace and not basically adding 2x cost , I could pay the same or even less I paid for CPU I bought 2 years ago to current gen CPU's and massive uplift in performance , same for RAM what I paid for 32gb 3600mhz I can pay the same now and get DDR5 6000 CL30 , same with nvme drive , TV I bought few years ago I can pay the same and get much better TV now
My phone that cost £600 with an snapdragon 888 and now I could pay the same and get one with faster Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 thats even before mentioning the other improvements
So I imagine what I paid last gen for 3080 £650 this gen for the same amount I would get equal , or slightly less or slightly better performance my understanding with technology you get higher performance for around the same cost ?
So by that logic each time they increase performance we have to pay more ?? where does it end ?
Do you not think what they saw happen during peak mining/covid people willing to pay and now trying to make it the norm ? or you really think costs have increased that much ??
But this has nothing to do with my conversation with Twinz. We were talking about why people are buying cards. Not why you dont want to.
If you need more performance then you will need to upgrade. The price that is set will appeal to some people and not to others.
If every CPU was £1000 from now on each gen, would you never upgrade? Keep your current one running for 10 years?
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You agree to the deal before asking. It should be irrelevant what I have.
Gordon Moore said so apparently.
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Going to be difficult to give you a card with more performance if IDK what card you have, is it not?
What if I had a 3080, what you giving me for free that is better.
Or even lets go with the two examples in my OP, where your one line answer was Gordon Moore begs to differ.
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What's £1000 CPU got to do with it ? They lifted the price on each tier to silly levels with GPUs but some reason it's ok because they increased performance ? But we always got performance increases each gen that pretty much how it goes with technology
It's okay for Nvidia and AMD to charge whatever they can get away with. You will buy one of their cards eventually unless you quit computers.
Similarly if Intel/AMD could charge £500-£1000 for a CPU knowing they wouldn't be massively undercut by each other, they would. And you would buy one of their chips eventually.
These aren't things you can boycott easily. It's like boycotting expensive cars, by saying I won't drive anymore. That ain't gonna happen and we rely on competition to keep prices down.
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Give it a few months until the 4070, 4060Ti, 4060, and the rest of the 40 series stack is released and I'll let you know.
If i had to guess, not having seen the performance of those yet to be released cards, i suspect you'd be swapping your 3080 for a 4070 or 4060Ti.
Although i have to admit you seem to be missing the point i was making and for that matter what Moore's law even is.
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There's not really a system seller game out there right now, I think the GPU sales that are happening now are down to pent-up demand of not being able to get a card at all during the pandemic for a reasonable price and, edge cases. People held on and were dumped into still paying 900 quid anyway.
You were responding to my post where you said Gordon Moore disagreed.
What point were you making that was relevant to my post about why people are upgrading?
What has Moore's Law got anything to do with what I was saying?
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no hurry for me to upgrade pretty happy with the 3080 at 1440p but when I do and if it continues I'll just end up buying used last gen cards , seen some fantastic deals pop up in the members section
Soldato
We don't get a meaningful generational uplift this generation either. I don't think anyone is expecting "free".
I'm curious to see how fast $700 Ada dollars are. We already know how fast $700 Ampere dollars are.
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I'm not saying anyone did think that until I was told Gordon Moore begged to differ as a retort to my post.
We do get higher performance this generation albeit at a higher price point. Some people need or want higher performance, so they will pay the higher prices.
Holding out and sticking with performance you don't like out of principle over £200 isn't worth their time or effort.
The 2080 Ti for example was $1200 for FE cards which set a new ceiling. They sold pretty well, even for AIB cards which rarely sold close to the $999 MSRP.
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Erm, because he does.
The last 50 years of IC manufacturing also disagrees with you
Because for the last 50 years that law has literally proven you wrong, that you do indeed get performance for free, you get it every time there's a node shrink because you're able to fit more transistors into the same area while the cost to manufacture that area increases by a tiny fraction compared to the decrease in cost per transistor.
I posted earlier in the thread about the per transistor cost of the 4004 was roughly 5c per transistor, if the cost per transistor hadn't consistently fallen over the last 50 year due to node shrinks you'd be paying something like £250k for a CPU or GPU.
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Erm, because he does.
The last 50 years of IC manufacturing also disagrees with you
Because for the last 50 years that law has literally proven you wrong, that you do indeed get performance for free, you get it every time there's a node shrink because you're able to fit more transistors into the same area while the cost to manufacture that area increases by a tiny fraction compared to the decrease in cost per transistor.
I posted earlier in the thread about the per transistor cost of the 4004 was roughly 5c per transistor, if the cost per transistor hadn't consistently fallen over the last 50 year due to node shrinks you'd not be paying something like £250k for a CPU or GPU.
So last 50 years of IC manufacturing says a 3070 or 2080 TI owner can upgrade for free.
You can post as much as you want, but until you explain how I am wrong in the post you replied to, a tangential fact isn't gonna work.
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Soldato
Funny you should mention the 2080Ti since I didn't buy it or any Turing cards for that matter. My 1080Ti did well. I would have liked more performance, but 30% wasn't worth the money they were asking, so I bought nothing.
Also, I don't think the 3080 would have been $700 had Turing sold as well as Nvidia had hoped it would.
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No, Moore's law.
My emphasis.
To more directly answer your IC manufacturing says a 3070 or 2080 TI owner can upgrade for free question, no because neither you nor i said anything about upgrading for free, you said...
And i replied by saying that you do, that Moore's law and the last 50 years of IC manufacturing has shown that as density increases the cost per transistor decreases resulting in being able to put more transistors into the same area increasing performance for a negligible cost increase, or putting the same amount of transistors into a smaller area and decreasing the cost.
E.g when the 4004 was released it cost something like $400, if you were to make it today it probably wouldn't even cost $4. Or you could spend that same $400 and get a x10k or more increase in performance.
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If it sold so well why did the 3080 come out at £650 and please do tell me the performance uplift from the 3080 to 2080ti
Wasnt the 3070 pretty much on per with the 2080ti while costing £469 ?
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