What electric cars are actually available in the UK . . .

4K8KW10 said:
These 150 miles range, though :eek:
They have to work to improve the batteries' capacities. What's the limiting factor there, the physical dimensions or Tesla, for example, has better technology?

And if the likes of Honda pay to Tesla to participate in its pool in order to avoid the heavy fines because of the dirty emissions, why don't they pay Tesla to use its battery technology?
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Tesla builds larger, more expensive, cars. That's the secret. When your cheapest model starts at £40k, and is the size of a VW Passat, you can ensure the range is decent.

Moving things forward just takes time. I bought a Renault Zoe in 2015. It had 80-ish miles of range (maybe 95 in summer?). The current model of that car can reliably to at least double that range. And it's been out a year now. Probably won't be long (another year or so) before >200 miles becomes standard for the low-end.
 
VW can fit a 75kwh+ sized battery in something the size of a golf, the ionic isn’t that much smaller than a model three and is significantly more efficient than a leaf. The model 3 is bigger is more efficient than anything on the market. The easiest way to make a car go further is to stop it chundering through electrons.

While the Leaf is a ‘ground up’ EV, it’s clearly based on an ICE design and production methodology so it has its compromises. That said, so is the Ionic/Kona/Nero/Zoe are too so there really is little excuse these days.

What makes the leaf bad is that it’s just inefficient at using its battery capacity and it has a charging connector that has no future in this country. They have a (overpriced) 60kwh version which gets way less range than a Kona/Nero.

I think what we are saying is that there is no reason why the leaf couldn’t be a decent car in 2020, Nissan has just neglected the it. Their new offering fixes alarmist all of these issues.

The new Zoe is a far better buy If you can handle the smaller size or the Ionic if you don’t mine something which is more sedan shaped. If your spending money on the 60kwh version your better off buying anything else at that price point.

Don’t get me wrong, when the Leaf was in its prime, it offered really good value at a decent price point. The issue is that things have moved on and the Leaf just hasn’t. It needs a hefty price reduction to make it compelling but even then due to the charge connector it’s a tough sell for anyone who does any research into them.

[/Rant]
 
The Leaf was first shown off in 2009, and hit the market in 2010 (US/Japan). It hasn't really had a full revision since then (the current model is a facelift on the same old platform), so naturally it's looking long in the tooth now. It was somewhat dated when the Zoe and i3 landed in 2013 :p
 
Ah OK that's interesting. It's all new ground to me and I'm just learning what is what. My naive assumption was the 38kWh battery on the ioniq was not as good as the 40kwh on the Leaf, plus the assumption the Leaf would be better since they have more history in the market. It seems I've a lot to learn :)
 
Yeah it is confusing, its hard to find good data on the efficency of the cars unless you're really into it.

As it goes the Ioniq is one of the most efficient EV's made so far, right up there with the Tesla Model 3 which is why it can go so far on such a 'small' battery compared to a lot of other cars.
 
Battery size is sort of irrelevant as it doesn’t take into account of how much energy you use. It’s effectively measuring the size of your fuel tank.

To be honest the best way to get a sense of efficiency is to look at WLTP numbers. You’ll not get that range at 70mph on the motorway but it gives you a good idea. There are also several websites dedicated to it like there are ice vehicles.
 
I see some websites offer a deal with the car where they'll install a charge point for a small cost too. Is this usually the preferred method? Or have people usually sought third party/independent local installs?
 
The low cost is because there is currently a government grant. You can get that grant with loads on installers.

You’ll only get that price for a straight forward install. E.g. small distance between the fuse box and charger location and it’s attached to the house and not a detached Garrage etc, no consumer unit upgrade and a fairly basic charger by today’s standards.
 
Interesting question of whether efficiency of tesla can be achieved in lower price cars, without sacrificing battery size too much (I'm not sure the two are dissociated)
Teslas, card, seems to be premium structural/aerodynamic body materials & technology(battery cooling/management)
albeit on the polestar 2, it might be less efficient, but that seems an intentional trade-off for better safety systems and some loss due to aerodynamic/suv footprint (like the Y would have too)

the incongruency that in ICE , small cars often had better efficiency(lower Cd, weight)

the wltp test has quite a lot of stop/starts, and that's where you start paying for weightfame
 
Yeah its really interesting how Hyundai make such efficient cars even thought they're built in a seemingly normal way compared to a Tesla. Did they just get lucky or are they extremely smart compared to the other legacy makers doing EV's?
 
It’s difficult to say, but they certainly grasped the concept that it’s easier to make get the car to chunder less electrons than to brute force the range with a bigger battery which is the Jag/Audi/Merc approach. It also helps that the platform was built from the ground up to be electric unlike those mentioned above. It just so happens to also fit an ICE/hybrid drive train.

The latter is ‘fine’ if you are able to charge a premium price but that doesn’t really work in the segment the ionic is in.

The other thing people also tend to ignore is that the less electrons it uses to move, the quicker it will also charge.

Measuring charge rates is by KW is silly. A good example is the Porsche tycan, it charges slower than a model 3 even in its 350kw mode (which isn’t available yet) compared to a model 3 maxing out at 250kw. What’s important is how many miles you gain per time on the charger, not how many electrons it’s chucking in.

The ionic charges quite slowly but it’s still faster than a lot of its competitors due to its relevant efficiency.
 
Hyundai IONIQ Hatch 5Dr
Elec 38.3kWh 100KW 136PS Premium SE 5Dr Auto
Personal contract hire
36 month contract
£270.44 inc VAT per mth
Initial rental: £2,433.96 inc VAT
Rental profile: 9 + 35
Vehicle Details
Body type Hatchback
Engine size 0.00 ltr
Fuel Electric
Transmission Automatic
Doors 5
Co2 Emissions 0 g/km
Insurance group 17E
Manufacturer RRP £35,950
Finance Details
Contract term 36 months
Rental profile 9 + 35
Annual mileage 10,000
Excess mileage Unspecified
35 monthly rentals of £270.44
Initial rental £2,433.96
Processing fee £300.00
* Prices are displayed inclusive of VAT
* Please be aware that excess mileage will apply
Deal Details
Vehicle in stock Yes
Metallic paint Yes
Offer expires 31/12/2020
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Hoping I can haggle the fee and perhaps get that monthly down even further. Overall though, given the travel allowance I get through work, this would be very cheap motoring.
 
sovietspybob said:
Yeah its really interesting how Hyundai make such efficient cars even thought they're built in a seemingly normal way compared to a Tesla. Did they just get lucky or are they extremely smart compared to the other legacy makers doing EV's?
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to be honest simple suspension. FWD only, limited BIW changes and nothing complicated at the rear.

They have kept it simple and it has paid off.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s difficult to say, but they certainly grasped the concept that it’s easier to make get the car to chunder less electrons than to brute force the range with a bigger battery which is the Jag/Audi/Merc approach. It also helps that the platform was built from the ground up to be electric unlike those mentioned above. It just so happens to also fit an ICE/hybrid drive train.

The latter is ‘fine’ if you are able to charge a premium price but that doesn’t really work in the segment the ionic is in.

The other thing people also tend to ignore is that the less electrons it uses to move, the quicker it will also charge.

Measuring charge rates is by KW is silly. A good example is the Porsche tycan, it charges slower than a model 3 even in its 350kw mode (which isn’t available yet) compared to a model 3 maxing out at 250kw. What’s important is how many miles you gain per time on the charger, not how many electrons it’s chucking in.

The ionic charges quite slowly but it’s still faster than a lot of its competitors due to its relevant efficiency.
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Yeah totally agree that KW is a terrible metric for charging speed, 'miles per hour' added seems a far better one like shown on the Tesla display.

You could easily compare car A charges at 400 miles per hour and that takes in to account the charging speed but also how efficiently it uses that charge.
 
There was always talk in the past that Hyundai were under quoting there battery capacity which made them look to be more efficient than they actually were.
 
Hyundai quote the useable pack size (as do others) but most quote the entire pack size. It’s not the best measurement though as it’s the size of the fuel tank.

I’d just suggest just look at the WLTP, knock off a third and your looking at real world motorway range with a bit of a buffer in winter.
 
Neil777 said:
There was always talk in the past that Hyundai were under quoting there battery capacity which made them look to be more efficient than they actually were.
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If it’s gross or useable it doesn’t really matter if you look at Wh/mile. Hyundai typically will do sub 250. Bigger stuff might be closer to 400!

Or alternative miles/kWh. Hyundai might better 4/kWh... others as low as 2.5.

It’s a whole new world :D
 
Hyundai, limiting the acceleration, and power like vw, is where I'd think they've also kept price down - Musks' obsession ?
... VW have (just?) rwd too, without much premium, and it's suspension is still multi-link like tesla ? (or a lot more alu?)

Aerodynamics seem pretty similar, for cd 0.3 (can't see cdA), so, in that respect model3 shape seems to be an asthetic choice, as opposed to necessity.

Tesla have the more elaborate Autopilot processors, which must be overkill expense, if it is not ultimately legalised/deployable.

Long term will be interesting to see Kia battery life


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RoboCod said:
Hoping I can haggle the fee and perhaps get that monthly down even further.
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don't you work out the overall monthly cost - isn't that what counts most ?
even if you borrow to settle the 'deposit'

edit2: rwd in a bev should be cheaper, than fwd, unlike an ice, since you have the motor in the back, and, have also decoupled steering and drive.
 
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jpaul said:
edit2: rwd in a bev should be cheaper, than fwd, unlike an ice, since you have the motor in the back, and, have also decoupled steering and drive.
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RWD has a downside though, you can't put as much regen through the rear wheels compared to a FWD (AWD is better again).
 
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