What smart themostart are using?

[SpellowHouse]

Well, I spend many years working in BEMS and HVAC and yet my system is really simplistic, lol.

The thing with the average house is that it just doesn't need complicated controls. The cost of fitting the system and maintenance is rarely covered by any savings. And invariably, any attempt at saving money is undermined by a families unpredictability. In my house, for example, the concept of "occupancy temperature" goes completely out the window because the occupants are the wild-card in the equation!

 

[squerble]

Well, I spend many years working in BEMS and HVAC and yet my system is really simplistic, lol.

The thing with the average house is that it just doesn't need complicated controls. The cost of fitting the system and maintenance is rarely covered by any savings. And invariably, any attempt at saving money is undermined by a families unpredictability. In my house, for example, the concept of "occupancy temperature" goes completely out the window because the occupants are the wild-card in the equation!

I agree. I've mostly bought a set of Tado thermostats as a way of monitoring how much the temperature of the house fluctuates, how long heating is actually firing for etc. The added bonus of being able to set "away" times but still then get the heating on for us getting home is a nice convenience, but certainly not necessary

 

[physichull]

I agree. I've mostly bought a set of Tado thermostats as a way of monitoring how much the temperature of the house fluctuates, how long heating is actually firing for etc. The added bonus of being able to set "away" times but still then get the heating on for us getting home is a nice convenience, but certainly not necessary

That's basically the same as me.

The wild card for me is my two year old son who opens all the doors to the rooms where the TRVs are set to low so lets all the heat out into those unoccupied rooms! But you can't reason gas bills with a two year old! Haha!

 

[413x]

Have tado.
And many robotic TRVs.

Not sure if it saves money (too many variables and no smart gas meter )
But certainly helps comfort.

We have quite a predicable schedule
-work at home approx 9-5.
- Kitchen and living room in evening
- bedroom at night (obviously)


I have two rooms that need heating to 15c while I'm away so. It's useful there with the geo fencing. Otherwise would have to leave all rooms on.


So very useful for me

 

[Sin_Chase]

Stay away from smart thermostats unless you want to spend endless hours in diagnostics. And even when it works, later on if god forbid and you lose connection, or your network dies or your fibre dies then you're screwed

Nonsense. I also certainly wouldn't rely on any American points of view for heating in a UK domestic setting. Totally different worlds.

On my second Nest Gen 3 in 2nd home and it's absolutely worth it for the ease of programming and remote access alone.

Set your expectations and choose a properly specced smart thermostat.

Dumb Thermostat - Turns on as per schedule whether anyone is in the house or not.

Smart Thermostat - Knows if anyone is home and wont turn on the heating if nobody is in even if its scheduled to.

Wont speak for other platforms but I cant fault the Nest solutions we have for our needs.

 

[Sin_Chase]

You'll only get the full benefit of a smart system if you buy every radiator a smart TRV too, so when you see £150 just for the Nest thermostat, add in another few hundred to get the TRV heads etc too.

This is not entirely accurate. A 'dumb' TRV can do exactly the same as a Smart TRV in terms of setting a room temperature. Combined with a Smart Thermostat 'dumb' TRVs can still deliver most of the available savings.

Smart TRVs give you more granular control and observable and actionable data.

I would argue that Smart TRVs are more a conveniance than a cost saving measure given the cost of each Smart TRV. The return on investment is a lengthy one.

I considered going for Smart TRVs but needing 12 of them would have been proper spendy, not something I would make back in savings over simple TRVs before a very long time.

 

[snowdog]

Tado all the way, it's a shame they try to sell their geofencing for extra costs now, I don't use that.
I do have a heating schedule which has saves me 75% compared to the previous inhabitants, basically whenever I'm away or sleeping (except the 45 mins before I have to get up) the heating is off...

I live alone so don't really need the geofencing. With a bigger family geofencing works very good aswell, a lot of mates have it aswell.

Just switch it on yourself

Yeah, nobody does that so accurately as a programmed thermostat. You wil always forget it sometimes.

 

[Freefaller]

I've got a HIVE system with 6 smart TRVs and some motion sensors (to help with the geolocation/schedule override element).

I've had the hive system for 4 years or so, fitted it myself. For me it's being able to control which rooms come on and having it turn off if no one is home. Just looking at my usage over the past 4 years, there's a notable downward trend of actual use. Price well that's down the energy companies but my usage is down, and overall I definitely have saved money. Have I broken even? Probably close if I'm honest but the main reason is comfort and ease of turning the heating on and controlling individual rooms.

 

[squerble]

Tado all the way, it's a shame they try to sell their geofencing for extra costs now, I don't use that.
I do have a heating schedule which has saves me 75% compared to the previous inhabitants, basically whenever I'm away or sleeping (except the 45 mins before I have to get up) the heating is off...

It's only the automatic geofencing that is locked behind their subscription, at least for now. You still get geofencing for free but it's in the form of a notification which asks if you want to enable/disable away mode.

 

[robj20]

It's only the automatic geofencing that is locked behind their subscription, at least for now. You still get geofencing for free but it's in the form of a notification which asks if you want to enable/disable away mode.

Does Tado support IFTTT?
if so you could use Life360 to do the Geo fencing.

 

[squerble]

Does Tado support IFTTT?
if so you could use Life360 to do the Geo fencing.

Not sure on IFTTT but it supports Apple HomeKit (and seems it'll let you control the thermostats via your phone even if the internet is off by way of being on the same network), so if IFTTT can tap into HomeKit then it's likely.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Nonsense. I also certainly wouldn't rely on any American points of view for heating in a UK domestic setting. Totally different worlds.

On my second Nest Gen 3 in 2nd home and it's absolutely worth it for the ease of programming and remote access alone.

Set your expectations and choose a properly specced smart thermostat.

Dumb Thermostat - Turns on as per schedule whether anyone is in the house or not.

Smart Thermostat - Knows if anyone is home and wont turn on the heating if nobody is in even if its scheduled to.

Wont speak for other platforms but I cant fault the Nest solutions we have for our needs.

The problems in applying solutions in America are the same as in the UK.

We installed systems all over the world, including the USA, and they were all designed in the UK. There were no modifications for specific markets other than language and time.

Incidentally, fun fact, we used to produce controllers for specific HVAC units and we were often given requirements and specifications for things like "Smart Comfort Mode" and the like. These buttons actually did literally nothing (unless you consider switching a small green LED on as something) but the customers would pay extra for them and then swear how good they are.

 

[jpaul]

I would argue that Smart TRVs are more a conveniance than a cost saving measure given the cost of each Smart TRV. The return on investment is a lengthy one.

I considered going for Smart TRVs but needing 12 of them would have been proper spendy, not something I would make back in savings over simple TRVs before a very long time.

I agree, if anything money better spend on pressure independent control valves and a pump that changes pressure,
would have like to see that & opentherm discussed by plumber on recent relations install, but not as sexy as the word SMART,

but like my system if you only have a few radiators on manually (or via TRV) since it was balanced for all on, my nearer ones are inefficiently contributing a higher return temp and flow rate, which picv+pump could improve.


[ reposting some evaluation of 'advanced' boiler controls, many of the analysis, like those from salford university exposed as unrepresentative.
flow / return temp 35/30C the nirvana

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648337/heating-controls-compensation-tpi-bre.pdf

]

 

[dlockers]

Smart TRVs I've found are good for forcing balance into the system. I.e. I shut off upstairs to heat up downstairs quicker.

 

[Sin_Chase]

The problems in applying solutions in America are the same as in the UK.

We installed systems all over the world, including the USA, and they were all designed in the UK. There were no modifications for specific markets other than language and time.

Incidentally, fun fact, we used to produce controllers for specific HVAC units and we were often given requirements and specifications for things like "Smart Comfort Mode" and the like. These buttons actually did literally nothing (unless you consider switching a small green LED on as something) but the customers would pay extra for them and then swear how good they are.

Im not saying systems are not compatible across different regions. I'm saying the manner in which Americans heat their homes are very different to the UK.

Radiator based heating represents a tiny fraction of domestic heating in the US with forced duct methods being the most popular. How many homes in the UK have you been in which used forced ducts?

This is why looking at Smart heating solutions for the US market isnt really a good place to start as a UK homeowner.

 

[jpaul]

Smart TRVs I've found are good for forcing balance into the system. I.e. I shut off upstairs to heat up downstairs quicker.

agree they could help ... do all types switch off in a binary fashion (solenoid?) or reduce flow as they approach temperature ?
in which case, if you can adjust flow rate you could pre-calculate some configurations for balancing.

 

[dlockers]

agree they could help ... do all types switch off in a binary fashion (solenoid?) or reduce flow as they approach temperature ?
in which case, if you can adjust flow rate you could pre-calculate some configurations for balancing.

It's an electronic screw essentially. So if you buy into the full marketing it'll understand precisely what your valve needs to be doing for the target temp.

However I've found they are pretty ineffective in this way, so generally use them as 0 degrees/i.e. 'off' or 32 degrees/i.e. 'on'.

I've tried some psuedo calc to improve flow by setting the rads that get hot super quick to lower temps but it still doesn't do what I want.

I do need to balance the system tho tbf.

 

[jpaul]

However I've found they are pretty ineffective in this way, so generally use them as 0 degrees/i.e. 'off' or 32 degrees/i.e. 'on'.

yes seems to be experience of nordic friends https://community.tado.com/en-gb/di...g-percent-and-time-on-radiator-thermostate/p2
where in community heating they get charged extra if return temps are too high because trv valves are 'too' open hah hah, unclear if they have lock shields as a first limiter on flow though.

 

[Buffman]

agree they could help ... do all types switch off in a binary fashion (solenoid?) or reduce flow as they approach temperature ?
in which case, if you can adjust flow rate you could pre-calculate some configurations for balancing.

Supposedly tado has a PID controller with 4opening setting (0%, 33%, 66%, 100%) I believe is what I read. Its represented by the bars on the app. I.e. If there's a minor increase in heat it will open less than areas requiring a large increase.

 

[Freefaller]

Even if the ROI is long. If you end up using less energy, which frankly we should all be striving for, it's also just a sensible investment in my opinion even if it's only for the convenience.