What the hell is going on in this country regarding dentistry?

[Caracus2k]

Only a fool would believe private density is good value. It’s forced through being held to ransom and well beyond the means of most.

But yet privately operated dentistry is the norm across the globe not the exception.


for example:

Spain: dental care in Spain is not covered by Spain's national healthcare system. However, dentistry in Spain has a reputation for being of high quality. What’s more, you will probably find the cost of a visit much lower than in northern Europe or the United States.

France: Much like in the UK dentists are contracted by the state to provide services there don't work for the state and the public are expected to pick up a fair chunk of the bill


The state covers 70% of patients’ baseline costs for doctor consultations. Mutuelles (private health insurance companies) offer additional insurance to cover most of the remaining 30%.

In theory, your state social security covers 70% of the cost of most dental treatment, while additional private health insurance can cover the remaining 30%. However, dentists set their rates high above the state-recommended tariffs for most treatments, resulting in many avoiding dental care as they cannot afford the out-of-pocket costs.

The healthcare system categorizes dentists as contracted or non-contracted (conventionnés or non-conventionné). The conventionnés group splits into two sections: Secteur 1 and Secteur 2. Non-conventionné falls under Secteur 3.
Dentists that are conventionnés Secteur 1 apply state-set tariffs for all standard treatments. These will be the cheapest dentists, with 70% of their fee covered by social security. Dentists known as conventionnés Secteur 2 rates are higher but still meet state regulations. Finally, a non-conventionné Secteur 3 dentist is the most expensive as their rates are not regulated. State security will only reimburse a small part of their fees, so you will need good dental insurance or deep pockets to cover the rest.
Dental insurance
Typically, you will take out optional insurance for dentistry in France to pay all or part of the remaining 30% of the bill not covered by social security.

Germany: yet again like the UK dentists don't work for the state directly they take both private and state clients
"it is important to be aware that while most German dentists accept public and private insurance, some independent practitioners only enroll private patients. In fact, around 400 independent dental practices treat only privately insured patients in the country."

There's also some hefty fees for some treatments

Even though public health insurance covers routine dental care, you will still need to pay for treatments, such as:

• Biannual cleaning: from €80
• Crowns: from €150
• Bridges: from €340
• Adult braces: €1,800–2,500
• Root canals: €200–1,000
• Teeth bleaching: €30–70 per tooth

Because state health insurance doesn’t cover all dental procedures, many residents choose to purchase supplementary private health insurance.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I think we know a 1948 Caracus would have been on the side of "the NHS will ruin healthcare and will never work".

But yet privately operated dentistry is the norm across the globe not the exception.


for example:

Even as an NHS patient we pay for for everything including crowns etc here. I don't think anyone is advocating for free dentistry, well for children and those that qualify yes but not for everyone. Private costs are just out of reach for many people. It just ends up with people not going when the problem is easily treatable and only go when they are in so much pain they can't not go. Or as is in the news atm, pull their own teeth out.

 

[Nevakonaza]

My Dentist was NHS but got taken over and made Private,Fortunately they have kept the NHS prices in bands so nothings really changed.

Although like everything else in the UK now,Gets ruined by pure greed...and if it hasn't already,It definitely will do.

 

[Caracus2k]

I think we know a 1948 Caracus would have been on the side of "the NHS will ruin healthcare and will never work".

The NHS is the oddity globally.... most countries didn't think it was a necessary to have a single publically operated behemoth to be tasked with providing health care.

Given that lack of emulation of the model it's likely that it isn't all some think its cracked up to be.

 

[Caracus2k]

My Dentist was NHS but got taken over and made Private

Your dentist was never an 'NHS' dentist. They were always a private practice that just stopped taking patients whoose costs were being covered by the lower rates the NHS pays.

 

[Nevakonaza]

Your dentist was never an 'NHS' dentist. They were always a private practice that just stopped taking patients whoose costs were being covered by the lower rates the NHS pays.

Possibly yeah,I know the two brothers that ran it previously were both jailed for Fraudulent activities regarding the clinic anyway haha,They no longer own it though.

 

[jigger]

The NHS is the oddity globally.... most countries didn't think it was a necessary to have a single publically operated behemoth to be tasked with providing health care.

Given that lack of emulation of the model it's likely that it isn't all some think its cracked up to be.

Private firms should start building hospitals in the UK. £700 a day brick layers will be made up.

 

[malachi]

As a foreigner/UK resident I just visit the dentist whenever I travel back home...

We tried to find an NHS dentist for years, none around us or all full.

Same with me, when I visit I just find a private one and go with them. NHS dentists all went during covid.

 

[jigger]

Your dentist was never an 'NHS' dentist. They were always a private practice that just stopped taking patients whoose costs were being covered by the lower rates the NHS pays.

That took NHS money to do a job.

 

[neocon]

I don't think £14 a month is too much for private cover. My kids are on NHS though.

 

[Caracus2k]

That took NHS money to do a job.

And now they have decided no to....

 

[jigger]

And now they have decided no to....

And we now have a rapidly growing public issue and people being held to ransom.

 

[Caracus2k]

Those damn Tories. and them setting up contracts for dental work, to be carried out on NHS funded patients, that doesn't properly relate to the costs incurred in providing the treatment and with disincentivises good practice! …..

And all years before they got into power in 2006!

Rotten, with no quick fixes: the state of our mouths reflects the plight of NHS dentistry | George Monbiot

I live in one of Britain’s many ‘dental deserts’, where those who can’t afford to go private face pain and misery, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

There’s no mystery about why the service is vanishing: if dentists treat patients on the NHS, they lose money, because the state funding package does not cover their costs. Since 2006, dentists have worked for the NHS under a contract so ridiculous that it seems designed to fail. They are paid, in classic New Labour-speak, according to “units of dental activity” (UDA), which bear no relation to the costs of treatment. For instance, until last year dentists received the same remuneration from the NHS for a patient who required 10 fillings as for a patient who required one. Treating a patient earned you three points, regardless of the length and expense of the procedure. Every practice has to meet an annual UDA target. There is no incentive to practise preventive dentistry, and every incentive to exclude the patients with the greatest needs.

Nor is there any encouragement for dentists to seek further training and qualifications: they are paid at the UDA rate, regardless of skills and experience. So, if you work for the NHS, you can kiss goodbye to career progression.

(Sarcasm aside the Tories obviously don't get any points for any big improvements since)

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

I don't have any sources that I can cite, just I was told that the decline in dentistry begun during Blair's premiership and it's been downhill throughout successive Labour and coalition/Conservative governments.

 

[413x]

Advocating that others must carry out compulsory labour maybe isn't quite as noble as you might think it is.

I'm sure you would find it quite objectionable if you were told you had to work for the state for a proportion of your time, that this was compulsory whether or not you already worked for the goverment, that this would be paid at a lower rate than your normal job and that you must do this do on top of still paying all the usual taxes.

But if it was established at outset it would be up to me to decide whether to persue that career.

 

[FoxEye]

I don't think £14 a month is too much for private cover. My kids are on NHS though.

That's just for a single body part, tho.

It all adds up. Eye tests and glasses, hearing tests, teeth, knees, hips... when it starts going wrong, if you had to pay for it all at private rates, well, we'd mostly all be bankrupt.

The going rate for private knee ops is £14,000 per knee, I'm told.

So then you need insurance (naturally). And we just need to peek at the US to see how well that's going. Or, more accurately, how we would copy the US model and end up with something equally terrible.

The fight against private dentistry is not a hill I'm willing to die on, but the general trajectory of this country is pretty clear, at this point.

 

[Caracus2k]

But if it was established at outset it would be up to me to decide whether to persue that career.

People react to incentives.

What's going to happen if we train dentists who can easily choose to go abroad rather than accept the sort of 'deal' you would propose?

 

[neocon]

That's just for a single body part, tho.

It all adds up. Eye tests and glasses, hearing tests, teeth, knees, hips... when it starts going wrong, if you had to pay for it all at private rates, well, we'd mostly all be bankrupt.

The going rate for private knee ops is £14,000 per knee, I'm told.

So then you need insurance (naturally). And we just need to peek at the US to see how well that's going. Or, more accurately, how we would copy the US model and end up with something equally terrible.

The fight against private dentistry is not a hill I'm willing to die on, but the general trajectory of this country is pretty clear, at this point.

It's a bottomless pit. People don't look after their teeth and then turn up at the dentist expecting them to sort it out. I know I didn't take care of mine until I was older and understood. When you pay you take more care.

 

[rare]

I don’t think I’ve ever had a NHS dentist. Pretty much impossible round here.

Just been given a bill of about a grand from my local dentist. Happy days.

 

[Richie]

The NHS is the oddity globally.... most countries didn't think it was a necessary to have a single publically operated behemoth to be tasked with providing health care.

Given that lack of emulation of the model it's likely that it isn't all some think its cracked up to be.

You use the word "oddity" which reveals your true opinion on public funded healthcare

I see publicly funded healthcare as an ideal that other countries should aspire to.

I'm sure you've benefited from publicly funded healthcare already and will do so in old age (when your opinion may change as you statistically need more healthcare)