When are you going fully electric?

The bold assumption is that PHEV owners actually charge them. A lot of the company car brigade don’t because their employers don’t reimburse them for the energy so why would they bother.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The bold assumption is that PHEV owners actually charge them. A lot of the company car brigade don’t because their employers don’t reimburse them for the energy so why would they bother.
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I wonder what the average CO2 emissions in the real world of a 3 Series driving company car user was before and after the tax system pushed them out of a 320i or a 320d and into a plug in hybrid...

The 320d was very fuel efficient on the Motorway.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
Who cares the nitrous oxides and other actually pollution is better, as well as noise pollution!
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For high mileage use which is mostly going to be outside of town, burning less fossil fuels is surely still quite a useful thing to be doing?

You've ignored the 320i though. A never charged since it left the factory 3 series plug in hybrid isn't going to be releasing less pollution as it goes up and down the Motorway than a 320i, is it?
 
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Hybrid taxation scams - moreover, I thought owners might be getting miles costing him 9p/kwh, reimbursed as petrol miles;
... and new ionity charging at 42p (w/membership cost) has narrowed field if your bev is only rembursed at 8p mile ... anyone ?approaching 200wh/mile yet
 
Had 3 day trip last week from Cheshire to Newcastle , Sunderland few other places 590miles . Charged at a few places and noticed a worrying trend , on 3 supermarket charging stations with spaces for 4-5 cars people would just park on them and go shopping not charging just bit of shopping then return and just driving off :mad:
 
pinkpound said:
Had 3 day trip last week from Cheshire to Newcastle , Sunderland few other places 590miles . Charged at a few places and noticed a worrying trend , on 3 supermarket charging stations with spaces for 4-5 cars people would just park on them and go shopping not charging just bit of shopping then return and just driving off :mad:
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Nothing new, ‘back in the day’ you’d regularly find the only two rapid chargers for 50 miles on the motorway with ICE cars parked in the bays and their owners are nowhere to be seen.

Fortunately they have stopped building them right outside the front door of the services.
 
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Journey said:
How often do you want/need the 300+ mile range in one go? E.g. going 150 miles somewhere then coming back, or a 5+ hours 300+ mile journey to a destination?

If it is edge/fringe case and not that often, then IMO I wouldn't base my buying decision on that, rather look at my normal behaviour and does that tie in with the ability to charge for 10-15 mins. If you look at the EV6 you are talking about that will easily charge at 120kW and way beyond, but even at that lower speed that is 2kWh per minute or 6-8 miles per minute of added range, so a 15 minute stop which is barely enough for a toilet stop, and to grab a drink etc and you've added 90-120 miles of range, which means that 300+ mile range really isn't needed for the most part, again unless you like driving for 5+ hours non-stop.

Other car options depends on budget, how long you want to keep the car, what mileage you do per year, what style of car you prefer etc. Far too many questions to ask so it is best if you indicate what you like/want/need, other than focusing on the range alone.
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All good points:

300miles is based on the longest journey we make with any regularity. My recently widowed mother-in-law comes to stay maybe one every couple of months. She lives about 100 miles away and doesn't drive as a result we usually do the round trip in a day, so that's 200 miles that would be nice to do on a single charge - factor in winter, heating etc and a stated 300 mile range seems about right.

Other than that, I agree with you. Stopping every 3 hours for a 30min stretch is fine especially if you can add 180miles in that time. All-be-it being reamed by the mad high charge rate costs per kWh.

We do about 12,000 miles per year and would plan on mostly charging at home to get the maximum advantage of the cheaper overnight charging options. That cost saving (over petrol) is a key part of the costing analyses.

Back to one point a raised. There is no reason that Kia can't build a car that feels like a £45,000 car, but do they and is the EV6 an example?
 
Cars with a 300 mile WLTP should do 200 miles you need so your ask is pretty much spot on IMO.

My old Model 3 standard range (60kwh) would cover that and that had a WLTP of 306 miles.

£45k in ICE world or EV world? EV adds a £5-£10k premium over a bog standard 4 pot petrol/diesel (non-hybrid).

In EV world it’s comparable to other offerings at that price point (real prices are probably a lot lower than RRP).
 
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www.unitetheunion.org

Fuel shortages across North West and Scottish borders as tanker drivers strike

Tanker drivers supplying forecourts and aviation fuel across the North West and Scottish borders, will strike over pay next week, Unite, the UK’s leading union, said today (Friday).
www.unitetheunion.org www.unitetheunion.org
How long before the mad rush begins around the country to fill the cars up.

Then we can ask how long does it take to fill the car up :eek:
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The bold assumption is that PHEV owners actually charge them. A lot of the company car brigade don’t because their employers don’t reimburse them for the energy so why would they bother.
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Absolutely this. I have the option of repaying private miles or being paid back for business. If I end up with a PHEV I'll swap to the latter and would get paid mileage done on electricity as if it were on petrol. A double whammy if that PHEV has a high capacity engine as the rate is much higher over 2000cc.

It's a shame PHEVs will never fully reach it's potential. While I may have to visit a couple of customers in Aberdeen one week, I could also find myself doing the commute to the office (16 miles each way) for the next two. A PHEV would be a good compromise for people like me but it's BEV or bust under the current plans.

jpaul said:
phev's still a sweet bik/range spot the passat phev with the bigger battery now - depending on how long you want to spend for your motorway break can top up with electric or petrol - both ?
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Yeah, that is the toss up at the moment. Do I push for PHEV or EV. The new VAG offerings are quite compelling despite me not really having any desire for a current VAG model.

PHEV is almost definitely the sensible option but EV is still a consideration. Last hotel I stayed at the chargers were all taken when I arrived and likewise when I left. Week before the three chargers sat there unused for the duration of my stay. It wouldn't be so bad if we had a quicker turn around of company cars but I'm over 5 years into my current one. Curse you COVID :rolleyes:
 
I charge mine regularly now that I have octopus intelligent. I used to charge loads when UL was dear and electric was cheap. But it is a bit of a faff when you only get 20 miles.

50 miles and 7kw charging make it worthwhile, I don’t see the point of faster charging on PHEV’s, home charging at reduced rates is the sweet spot.

In general I would say my 330e is pretty economical on a run, not as good as a diesel but 45mpg is easily achievable. That’s without any charge. If you add a charge then mid 50’s is the norm. It’s bloody aweful round town tho, that’s where charging is beneficial.
 
Hodders said:
300miles is based on the longest journey we make with any regularity. My recently widowed mother-in-law comes to stay maybe one every couple of months. She lives about 100 miles away and doesn't drive as a result we usually do the round trip in a day, so that's 200 miles that would be nice to do on a single charge - factor in winter, heating etc and a stated 300 mile range seems about right.
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So depends what you want out of a car then, brand new Renault Scenic E-Tech is a big car, with an 87kWh battery and would easily meet your needs, and it actual pretty nice vehicle overall. MG4 Extended range would also work, the Nissan Ariya with the larger battery, and some really nice pricing on them right now, lovey inside and IMO not terrible looking, 100% worth going to see one and do a test drive. I am guessing from the EV6 selection you want an SUV style vehicle, if not there are other options as well to look at.

What is worth doing with that regular journey is having an actual real average speed to base your calculations on, we do a similar trip which is between 100-110 miles each way, but can't achieve more than 55mph as an average for the journey due to the start and end being though a city and a town so they consumption is much lower, so much so I have done it several times between spring and autumn without charging at all, based on a tiny 38kWh battery vehicle, in the winter we do a granny charge using the 3-pin EVSE while we are there to negate the need to charge on the way back.
 
Anyone been through the Tesla approved used ordering process recently with a personal/non-business purchase? (Might also be applicable to new car order process too).

During the process it wants your details for the car registration documents, but it also wants proof of company address (even though it’s a personal purchase). Anyone else come across this?
 
ICDP said:
Nope, it is not irrelevant because all 31 people’s “needs” in your scenario are counted in an average. That’s why it’s an average, a trend, an indicator of an approximation. If you look at an average and think “it’s irrelevant” all you are doing is showing you ignorance of why averages exist.

Paradoxically an average can represent all data but none at the same time. By that I mean you could take the average age of 10 people and come up with an average age of 35. Yet not one of the people whose age made up the data is actually 35.

With the average annual mileage being low AND the average journey length being low. It is an indication that the trend is for most people to do mostly short journeys. So manufacturers take that data and conclude there is a sizeable market for a short range commute EV that will never see a rapid charger.

The fact it does not meet your (or my) needs is what is irrelevant.
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So what you're saying is that a card maker would look at that data and establish that there's a huge market for "happy 35th birthday!" cards. Then end up selling none of them and going out of business? :cry:

You say I don't understand averages, but then quite literally point out in your post that basing a product on the "average" has a not-insignficant risk of meeting nobody's needs

My average journey is probably around 5-10 miles with 2 people in the car. That doesn't change the fact that I also need to frequently do 100+ mile trips to isolated locations with no chargers, or to carry more than 1 passenger, or to fill the car with stuff.

A car that meets my "average" needs doesn't actually meets my needs at all, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a place for cheap short range EVs as a second car, but £30k isn't exactly cheap (especially when you consider you can get something like an MG4 with double that for the same price)
 
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jpaul said:
you do need a new hobby whilst you are charging - thanks for the idea; autopilot can get you home safely, too.

- so is the new 20kwh bmw really not going to offer dc/50kw charging like the passat seems to.
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Whats the point of 50kw on a PHEV, those 50 miles will cost you £10-12 on public charging networks, it really isnt necessary.
 
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