When are you going fully electric?

[DanTheMan]

Not that I bought our corsa e because it was in any way 'fun', but it handles surprisingly well and is really quite quick between 20-60mph. I had a surprising amount of fun throwing it around the twisties earlier this week.

I too just don't really understand the desire for the SUV / crossover and making an already heavy EV even heavier. Although it probably makes sense seeing as 90% of them probably sit outside school gates and coffee shops for most of their life.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

yes, grills could be designed as pedestrian friendly, but are they ? or are they just advertising hoardings, which would be, reprehensible.
(polestar, on its side is very friendly with it's popup bonnet , I believe)
Also, if they are active, they perhaps don't degrade the aerodynamics too much, and, yes, provide cooling when needed.

... but - I posted it to see if anyone knows more about ncap - it's a daming insight on suv style, in general, if true.

It’s utter rubbish ignore that random
person. NCAP is a key part of EU market cars. flex leg, leg pli to mimic damage to ligaments in the knee and manage leg bending and shear. Then looking at head impact on the bonnet, SUV tend to do better there as there more fresh air to the hard stuff. 2022 Ncap will also include cyclist scores who are higher from
the ground so have to consider head impact on the a pillar where lower cars wont help in that situation.

in terms of features that can appear..., my IPACE for example has an airbag that deploys accross the windscreen.

bonnets only pop once for an impact and stay there.

google an NCAP report and you see what measured for the consumer report.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Not that I bought our corsa e because it was in any way 'fun', but it handles surprisingly well and is really quite quick between 20-60mph. I had a surprising amount of fun throwing it around the twisties earlier this week.

I too just don't really understand the desire for the SUV / crossover and making an already heavy EV even heavier. Although it probably makes sense seeing as 90% of them probably sit outside school gates and coffee shops for most of their life.

cos they are not little Corsa’s is probably the “desire”

 

[Journey]

I too just don't really understand the desire for the SUV / crossover

Marketing pure and simple for the most part, keeping up with the Jones's etc. There are plenty of reasons to have them if you have access mobility issues, or prefer to be higher up while driving (accepting you are killing efficiency in the process). Internal space isn't a good excuse either, as with a proper ground up designed BEV isn't an issuer, as the wheel base is normally much longer so easy to get five people comfortably in a medium sized vehicle.

Remember the good old joke - You know the difference between a hedgehog and a Range Rover divint ya? A hedgehogs got pricks on the ooooutside!! (Bonus points if you can name the show)

It'll probably be a cyclical thing, once the market is saturated and people want a change, a bit like how colours come and go, it was white, now it is grey, and it used to be silver, no doubt black will come back, or maybe even red!

 

[chroniclard]

Must be a big market for those that dont want to drive a van though.

 

[McPhee]

It is utterly shocking (yet not surprising) that a reversing camera is put in a pack that costs £1295.

Amazing how much nickel and diming goes on. My mum's new Audi Q3, bought last year, is missing a bunch of stuff that was standard on my 2014 Leaf Acenta and 2015 Zoe Dynamique. It's what put me off an eGolf a few years back; by the time the car had been brought up to spec, it was a lot more expensive than advertised.

 

[jpaul]

BMW 3 series saloon is still a big seller, so, first pure ev vendor into that saloon segment audi/merc/... ? will steal from the others.

[

It’s utter rubbish ignore that random
person. NCAP is a key part of EU market cars. flex leg, leg pli to mimic damage to ligaments in the knee and manage leg bending and shear. Then looking at head impact on the bonnet, SUV tend to do better there as there more fresh air to the hard stuff. 2022 Ncap will also include cyclist scores who are higher from
the ground so have to consider head impact on the a pillar where lower cars wont help in that situation.
in terms of features that can appear..., my IPACE for example has an airbag that deploys accross the windscreen.
bonnets only pop once for an impact and stay there.
google an NCAP report and you see what measured for the consumer report.

we know what ncap is , who hasn't looked at their web-site, of course a bonnet pops up once, but if it(polestar one) saves someones life ! lol

anyway - google shows this doc rapidly, if you look at this doc it elaborates on how grill area is considered differently to other structures
are (not)considered https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/32288/euro-ncap-pedestrian-testing-protocol-v84.pdf
2.2.2.13 For the calculation of effective mass, only movement in the X direction is considered. The most significant structures that load the leg should be considered, such as the bumper cross member and any upper or lower cross beams. Less significant structures, such as grills and valances may be ignored. Viscous effects should be ignored
3.3.8 Repeat Sections 3.3.4 to 3.3.7 across the whole width of the bonnet. Using a flexible rule, join the marks on the bonnet to form a line. This line may not be continuous but may ‘jump’ around the grill and badge area etc. This line is the Bonnet Leading Edge Reference Line.
etc
]

 

[Jonnycoupe]

You asked for info on Ncap and designing cars, I do it for a living, and now you are dismissing some info I shared based on a Google
Link you just found check the car specific reports for better context of the cars discussed. Of course there are many legal requirements, some fed from data from NCAP tests which is cool. I just see referencing random waffle from a speakEV thread as zero value add here.

deploying bonnets are pretty standard safety equipment used for many years. Come well with the Volvo back catalogue, just not so great when they go off when hitting speed bumps.

 

[AndrewNR]

Is anybody else seeing the original Audi A3 when looking at the Ioniq 5, especially in the title sceenshot from Johnny Smith's video?

I like the Hyundai, but yeah, my first thought was a 1st/2nd gen Audi A3 hybrid.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Thought I’d try out Rugby M6 services today as it opened yesterday and apparently on free vend and not a far run out to take my lad to show him. This is the first result of the Ecotricity/Gridserve effort to improve motorway services with the MOTO monopoly the Electric Highway has neglected for years...


12 Tesla superchargers, 12x 350kWh Tritium charers with CCS with 6 of them also having Chademo. Cable run short, it’s on a pully that lets it extend but soon drew it back in.





Plenty of distance from the services so that should avoid ICE’ing. Screens very clear, option of contactless or the app to pay 30p/kWh.



Not bad after starting at 16%



Interesting to try out the UKs first and a positive experience, I’ll probably never use motorway toilets as clean as that again either

Got chatting to the guy who just picked up an i3 and was driving it home 300mile! Early 24kWh one so only does 80 miles or so. Had 3 miles left and saw the services sign. I said he was lucky as it only opened yesterday

 

[SDK^]

Thought I’d try out Rugby M6 services today as it opened yesterday and apparently on free vend and not a far run out to take my lad to show him. This is the first result of the Ecotricity/Gridserve effort to improve motorway services with the MOTO monopoly the Electric Highway has neglected for years...


12 Tesla superchargers, 12x 350kWh Tritium charers with CCS with 6 of them also having Chademo. Cable run short, it’s on a pully that lets it extend but soon drew it back in.





Plenty of distance from the services so that should avoid ICE’ing. Screens very clear, option of contactless or the app to pay 30p/kWh.



Not bad after starting at 16%



Interesting to try out the UKs first and a positive experience, I’ll probably never use motorway toilets as clean as that again either

Got chatting to the guy who just picked up an i3 and was driving it home 300mile! Early 24kWh one so only does 80 miles or so. Had 3 miles left and saw the services sign. I said he was lucky as it only opened yesterday

Looks great - I saw your post on the FB EV owners group
Maybe one of these will pop up soon around the Wales/West Mids area

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Nice, I didn't even know this was being built and that is pretty handy for one of my semi-regular journeys to see family (not been for > year due to COVID). Living in the East of England there are quite a few 'not spots', particularly east to west but also up the east coast. But this plugs a gap perfectly when we finally go fully electric later this year, if this didn't exist I'd have had to divert down a longer route to pick up a charger.

Just an example of the East to West 'not spots' is the entire length of the A14 there are still only 7 chargers on the whole road, 6 of them are at Cambridge Services (4 Ionity and 2 Ecotricity) and the other only serves the west bound at Newmarket. Don't get me wrong there are a few other 'close by' chargers but they are all off the main road and will add time on top of having to charge. North to south is much better catered for on the trunk roads.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s good how also just off the A5. Really good location really. Those cables are pretty beefy though. Shame they don’t do a “left handed”version of the chargers to mix it up as bit of a pain with the IPACE. Was tempted to park between spaces

 

[SDK^]

I prefer to reverse into spaces so that would annoy me too

 

[FoxEye]

It's not yet economically viable to create Hydrogen using solar panels. You would need around 100m2 to generate 1kg of Hydrogen a day, which is roughly the same energy a gallon of petrol. Australia sold around 9M gallons of petrol a day last year.

But the big question is, why do you want to generate electricity then inefficiently convert this into a gas which you then convert back again into electricity (with more losses) for use? It is far easier and way more efficient to just send the electricity to where you need it. Hydrogen is difficult to transfer and to store as it has a habit of trying to leak from whatever it is in.

Because battery technology is nowhere near good enough, and seems to be progressing far slower than needed?

Plus the batteries only seem to last 3 years or so, creating a mountain of waste, and they use lots of rare metals (costly and damaging to extract) and aren't all that easy to recycle.

Until and unless battery tech gets a good kick up the arse and these problems are fixed (hint: maybe, never), then alternatives could still have a part to play. Probably do have a part to play. And that could well include hydrogen and others.

It's mostly the same question as "Why do they use solar/wind to pump water uphill?" If they could store the energy as electricity they would, but they can't so storing it as potential energy in high altitude water is not a bad idea. Our best battery tech is positively ancient and really isn't improving very quickly.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Because battery technology is nowhere near good enough, and seems to be progressing far slower than needed?

Plus the batteries only seem to last 3 years or so, creating a mountain of waste, and they use lots of rare metals (costly and damaging to extract) and aren't all that easy to recycle.

Until and unless battery tech gets a good kick up the arse and these problems are fixed (hint: maybe, never), then alternatives could still have a part to play. Probably do have a part to play. And that could well include hydrogen and others.

It's mostly the same question as "Why do they use solar/wind to pump water uphill?" If they could store the energy as electricity they would, but they can't so storing it as potential energy in high altitude water is not a bad idea. Our best battery tech is positively ancient and really isn't improving very quickly.

Have you put any thought to your post? All I’m going to say is that is categorically wrong.

@FoxEye you call people out all the time for posting nonsense in other parts of the forum then you come in here and post that utter drivel that has no basis in reality here.

 

[FoxEye]

There are plenty of cheaper EV's on the way. I saw someone the other day saying "after the ICE ban, what will a nurse who'd buy a £5k Corsa buy.. they can't afford £30k for an EV" ... and surely the answer is a £5k used EV?! (Maybe £6k seeing as the running costs are much lower).

But a decently maintained ICE can (and does) last decades, whereas your EV's battery pack will be useless by the time the vehicle hits £5k on the used market. You'll have a max range similar to a limpet

And they cost thousands to replace, every 3 years or so (by which time they're mostly spent again).

Just seems that EVs will never replace a good, used ICE motor. They can't be anywhere near as cheap thanks to the stupid batteries dying every few years.

Have you put any thought to your post? All I’m going to say is that is categorically wrong.

@FoxEye you call people out all the time for posting nonsense in other parts of the forum then you come in here and post that utter drivel that has no basis in reality here.

/yawn. Keep the personal bickering from GD out of this thread, it doesn't need it.

I've read what I've read. Happy to be corrected by some actual sources, if you want to post some.

e: You can read in any number of places. After 3 years most EV batteries have lost 20%+ of their capacity (because they're based on frankly ancient lithium tech which you will know from your mobile phone loses capacity quickly). And carry on losing capacity every year.

Your average nurse, etc, who runs a "banger" will not want to lease a battery for £100/month, as that adds up very quickly to much more than they are willing to spend on their vehicle. My own car cost £2k and has been running for 5+ years now. I don't need to tell you that with a leased battery I'd have spend £6k in the same time.

e2: Since you didn't specify which parts of my post where "nonsense", here's a link to the fact that recycling car batteries is hard and nobody is really prepared for the problem as yet.

UK needs to act to prevent "mountain" of electric vehicle battery waste (circularonline.co.uk)

And surely it's common knowledge that creating them in the first place requires rare materials that are expensive and damaging to extract? I mean, you can read that in any number of places. They're planning to (re)open mines in Cornwall to extract lithium, which will not be cheap or environmentally friendly.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

Decent article on the life of EV batteries here. Also a good article on lithium and the challenges around that here.

My thought has always been that we’d live in a future where individual cars/transport would significantly reduce and we’d all be travelling on some sort of next-gen public transport. I’m personally not certain that battery powered cars on an individual level is really the solution we need, but it seems to be the best option we have for the moment.

I’ll probably switch to a non-ICE at some point but not until the technology (including infrastructure) reaches the point where its as convenient and as consistent as it is now with my diesel car. I try to use public transport for longer trips where I can, and I’m now not replacing my cars until they become uneconomical to repair.

 

[FoxEye]

Part of the trouble is we're just iterating on lithium-ion tech which is decades old, and has always had the same kind of problems.

From everything I've read, we're not expecting to switch to any revolutionary new battery tech for decades yet (various stuff is being researched, like solid state batteries and loads of experimental stuff, but as always most research never amounts to anything). But the here and now is all based on lithium-ion. They can iterate on it and tinker round the edges but it has the same fundamental problems it's always had.

Whilst not applicable to every EV, the early Leaf models (which are on the 2nd hand market about now) easily lost 20% capacity in 3 years. In fact in hotter parts of the US they were seen to lose 25% after just two years

Battery Capacity Loss – Electric Vehicle Wiki

It's interesting to note that today the best battery warranties out there are ~8 years/100k and a battery at 70% capacity at the end is considered working as intended.

 

[SDK^]

Plus the batteries only seem to last 3 years or so, creating a mountain of waste, and they use lots of rare metals (costly and damaging to extract) and aren't all that easy to recycle.

Batteries are too valuable to scrap and they are also really easy to recycle.
Once they have completed their life in a vehicle they can be used in factories, commercial units or domestic homes for energy storage for another 10+ years.

Lithium-ion batteries are covered by the Battery Directive, which stipulates that at least 50% of the battery in its entirety must be recycled. This is easily achievable: the packs are dismantled and the plastics and wiring that make up the bulk of the pack around the cell can be recycled, along with other similar plastics.
Currently this recycling is a manual process but is fast moving towards more automation, as the demand is increasing and it’s becoming more commercially viable.