When are you going fully electric?

[bigmike20vt]

You only bought a second hand one because it was cheap after someone else took the hit on a new one.

what has that got to do with the reliability/repairability of the battery?
private buyer / cheaper leases same difference. if companies don't want cars with difficult to repair batteries then they can choose to stock cars with easier to repair batteries.

and as for taking the hit on a new car , I wouldn't buy any car outright with cash. I got my 350z a 34k car when new for 12k and my 1st fiat coupe for £6k which was.probably £20k+ when new.

not sure why my EV would be different ? (tho actually my EV percentage wise was the closest I have paid to new price.
it does make me laugh tho how the goal posts move . a few years back people were arguing EVs were a poor choice because there were no affordable 2nd hand cars.
now apparently they are a poor choice because they have lost too much value from new?.

or there is the cobalt mining argument, despite there being cobalt in an ICE car and you can buy cobalt free batteries for an EV.
or the huge number of EV car fires which is demonstrably false (and again if you are worried choose your battery wisely)
or the massive battery degradation( generally also false) some still claim an EV car battery is fit for the skip after 5 years despite coming with at least an 8 year warranty.

or the funniest one of all, the people who argue that the infrastructure is not good enough, too unreliable and expensive (fair points and if I could not charge either at home or at work I would not buy an EV yet....)

BUT then follow it up with suggesting hydrogen which is ludicrous if the above issues are a concern.

 

[Nasher]

The reason modern EVs now exist is exactly because ICE cars are not a panacea.

The only reason they exist is because the government said we have to have them and it's cheap tax for businesses.

For most people buying new they are pretty much white goods now.

 

[OspreyO]

It would be needed if the battery became defective or damaged, not the Nio option of replacement of a discharged battery for a charged one, that isn't needed. The ease of replacement is what is needed if required.

AFAIK they are easy to replace. Most just bolt on. Where did you get the impression they are not.

 

[[TW]Fox]

it does make me laugh tho how the goal posts move . a few years back people were arguing EVs were a poor choice because there were no affordable 2nd hand cars.
now apparently they are a poor choice because they have lost too much value from new?.

Can't you see that is the same goal post?

The cars are excessively priced new, which leads to huge depreciation on the used market.

 

[OspreyO]

The only reason they exist is because the government said we have to have them and it's cheap tax for businesses.

For most people buying new they are pretty much white goods now.

For most people ICE cars they are white goods simply a means of getting to A to B.

The reason that exist because ICE cars have become a problem with emissions and tbh a pita to maintain. Dieselgate, adblue, egf dpf. And it's worldwide problem not just the UK govt.

 

[Journey]

I mean for me personally, being an EV is a much nicer experience and I am a personal owner/buyer/user with no incentives from the UK gov, and am busy shopping for my next personal EV again with no incentives. As for appliances, a twin tub was an appliance but would i go back to one after having a 10.5Kg washer that can be remote started, and then dry things as well, er nope.

 

[OspreyO]

Can't you see that is the same goal post?

The cars are excessively priced new, which leads to huge depreciation on the used market.

Then don't buy new, buy used where the largest chunk of depreciation has happened. It's the same with ICE cars. Worst depreciation is the first 3 yrs.

Huge depreciation in EVs is a recent (2023) occurrence due a number of factors, Brexit (well done lads), falling cost of battery tech and a massive price war with China. Also due to the UK tax on company cars. (Well done lads).

If someone late 2023 walked into a Showroom and bought something like an ID Buzz at launch price they've more money than sense. The flip side of this is theres a lot of bang for buck now.

 

[OspreyO]

I mean for me personal, being an EV is a much nicer experience and I am a personal owner/buyer/user with no incentives from the UK gov, and am busy shopping for my next personal EV again with no incentives. As for appliances, a twin tub was an appliance but would i go back to one after having a 10.5Kg washer that can be remote started, and then dry things as well, er nope.

Same here no grant used. Thought one of us (probably me) would prefer driving our ICE over the EV. But that hasn't been the case. We both prefer driving the EV. There's about 5% of journeys I do where I might prefer the manual ICE on engaging back roads with no traffic..

 

[tonys]

AFAIK they are easy to replace. Most just bolt on. Where did you get the impression they are not.

Nowhere, just saying as we all know how manufacturers like to make it difficult ro repair or replace things.

 

[OspreyO]

Nowhere, just saying as we all know how manufacturers like to make it difficult ro repair or replace things.

That's more about the whole right to repair.

 

[tonys]

That's more about the whole right to repair.

Same difference in my mind.

 

[Simon]

There's 20% vat on public charging and 5% on home electricity, so there is revenue generated.

What’s fuel duty right now?

 

[Simon]

Go on then. People are selling a product that’s driven by tax savings right now. Good luck selling it without such benefits.

What do you drive ? And via what mechanism.

Thought I should add I’m on the tax dodge train of EV via salary sacrifice, helped by 2% BIK and no VED

 

[m4rmite]

Go on then. People are selling a product that’s driven by tax savings right now. Good luck selling it without such benefits.

What do you drive ? And via what mechanism.

Paid cash, dealer was doing pre reg with a 5k discount.
Car came with 2 miles.

 

[m4rmite]

What’s fuel duty right now?

As of 2022.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Can't you see that is the same goal post?

The cars are excessively priced new, which leads to huge depreciation on the used market.

some are, but equally there are more reasonably priced EVs as well even new. perhaps because of the people on this forum tend to be more interested we look at the taycans abd what not, but the MG cars (ignoring the cyberster) are fair and the ID3 is roughly on a par with a high end golf, the small volvo and then there is the new Citroen which seems affordable , I suspect other cars on that platform will also be ok.
I would agree for a while EVs were expensive, partly due to battery costs but also imo partly because some dealers didn't really want to sell an EV due to less profits made on repairs down the road... but the high battery cost was why grants were needed to kickstart the sales.

unfortunately with battery prices dropping and new EVs coming down in price , and amplified by the shortages in COVID putting prices up there have been some people who have lost a load of cash if they bought at the worst possible time.

but over all big picture, plummeting battery prices is surely a good thing.
I fully admit there are some EVs on sale right now and I do wonder who would buy them.... or lease them even looking at lease prices.

I am glad they do however as it means some nice 2nd hand options.
I love my ipace but would I pay £70,000 for it? absolutely not.
I did consider a brand new MG5 a while back however. £27k brand new (with an MG police/fire/NHS / COVID key worker discount)

 

[OspreyO]

It was implied that batteries are hard to replace and now that they are deliberately difficult to replace. I don't know if any that are difficult to replace or make deliberately difficult to replace.

I think Tesla are glued closed to make them more robust and in the quest for weight saving. They are easy to replace as they just bolt on.

Repairing the battery is a different thing to replacing the battery. I think they assumed they would just be replacing batteries, which hasn't "mostly" been needed. I don't think they considered that third parties would end up fixing them as more viable alternative.

Though like Apple or other ICE manufacturers locking down repairs, EVs will suffer the same probably unless govts enforce right to repair.

Open to correction I'm no expert.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

But they don't make them easily swappable, they build the whole car around it and even make it structural in some. So the cost of replacing it is basically disassembling and rebuilding an entire car.

Whereas a whole engines can still be swapped in a couple of day by someone who knows what they are doing. You can also find used engines dirt cheap for most cars.

Structural means the pack in itself when installed forms part of the structure of the car. For eg side protection.
It doesn't mean it has to be there to keep the car in one piece or that it means you cannot remove the battery.

It means there is less overall structure surrounding the battery and they are potentially easier to get in and out (why they are made this way now partly) so structural packs are generally easier to change.
Other benefits like not having to be hung below the floor etc.

Edit, this cybertruck thread has some pictures of a body casting halfway down, with "no floor" so you can see where the pack bolts in

4680 Structural Battery Pack explained - How does it work?

I thought I'd make a dedicated thread for this discussion to share thoughts on how the structural pack design works, in response to discussions on various other threads. Model Y 4680 Structural pack as reference These are some pictures I grabbed from Monroes teardown the 4680 to get an idea of...

www.cybertruckownersclub.com

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’m pretty sure they also only ship cars with structural batteries in the USA, specifically with their own cells.

We get the ‘traditional’ ‘skateboard’ style cars with cells from LG, CATL and soon BYD as Model Y is now coming from Berlin rather than Shanghai.

 

[OspreyO]

Why only the US?

Structural Batteries: The Cars of the Future Are Glued

Structural batteries are changing the way electric cars are assembled. Structural adhesives are replacing screws and welds to “glue” components together using a process called adhesive bonding. This process requires additional surface preparation and creates new challenges for automakers and...

www.laserax.com