When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

[Murphy]

OK I think I get it now, after more reading. Prices are ****** up because NVIDIA and partners still have a lot of 30 series cards to get rid of, and rather than drop the price on those they're reducing 40 series supply (that's why they're "sold out" at MSRP and can otherwise only be purchased either day 1 when they sell out, or at some massively stupid mark-up). They want us to buy previous generation cards at current generation prices. Only way to do that is restrict supply. Suppliers are reporting 4080 cards supply will be 20% LOWER than 4090 supply was, if you can believe it.

So I would have to wait until next year, probably summer next year, to get a decent, affordable 40 series card.

Honestly i can't see them (Nvidia) reducing prices, they'll just keep trickling GPUs into supply chains until they sell through their stockpiles, they could still be selling 30 series cards when 50 series rolls around for all we know (who knows how many GPUs they're stockpiling).

Maybe they'll have some BF/CM deals but i think Nvidia's intention is to target current gen cards at people who don't care much about prices while previous gen cards will be targeted at those who are more cost conscious.

 

[Trickle]

Oh, really? I do rendering with iRay and Blender. I was looking to boost it (I have a 2070 at the moment, which is dated by now). I didn't know I could get a 3060 12GB had the same render performance as a 2080Ti. I thought it was about 2070 performance.

More like a 2080. I loved the 3060 when I had one. Not far off double the performance of the 1080ti I had, and much more memory than the 1gb difference would suggest due to Nvidia hobbling past past card memory allocation in drivers*. Massive upgrade over my old Pascal card, but not much for you on a 2070.

You will already know whether 8gb is enough for what you want right now. I would imagine 8gb is still fine if you are using stuff like substance painter, creating models in blender or porting characters into Unity/Unreal.

*they claim they had no choice when they changed how Iray/Vray worked when RTX came in.

 

[newuser]

Vanilla NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 is 2426.48 and vanilla NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 is 2244.25. That's CUDA and Optix on Windows ticked. So the 3060 is a bit faster for blender but of course has the 12GB so you can detail up your environments more than you can with the 2070.

Daz Studio is one of the programs I use and the 30 series cards do to seem to punch above their weight when using IRAY. Be wary when comparing studio render benchmarks as render speed isn't consistant across versions.

The 40 series cards could be good if they don't gimp the vram. 12gb on a reasonably priced card was a bit of an anomaly.

 

[newuser]

I was looking at the 3060 compared to the 3060Ti and was wondering how the 12 GB of VRAM at 198 Bit bus width compares to 8 GB VRAM at 256 Bit bus width, can the 8 GB make up for the lesser capacity by being able to transfer quicker or will the extra capacity of the 3060 being overwhelmingly better?

I have noticed the 3060Ti runs rather cool at 27°C in explorer, could that be the large die used? Even under heavy load it still stays under 60°C.

The 3060ti will render faster unless you run out of vram. What happens then depends on your renderer and your settings. Could be paging to disk, dropping to cpu only mode and using system ram, refusing to render altogether or stopping halfway through. In those cases the slower card with more vram comes out on top.

 

[ninjag]

The 3060ti will render faster unless you run out of vram. What happens then depends on your renderer and your settings. Could be paging to disk, dropping to cpu only mode and using system ram, refusing to render altogether or stopping halfway through. In those cases the slower card with more vram comes out on top.

I thought I'd check out the VRAM with Cyberpunk (appreciate it's a game so maybe different) and noticed the max. VRAM used whilst playing was just over 7GB. Could this be all that the game needed, or does the game know that I've only got 8GB and therefore doesn't try to exceed it and perhaps makes adjustments elsewhere?

 

[Zarax]

I thought I'd check out the VRAM with Cyberpunk (appreciate it's a game so maybe different) and noticed the max. VRAM used whilst playing was just over 7GB. Could this be all that the game needed, or does the game know that I've only got 8GB and therefore doesn't try to exceed it and perhaps makes adjustments elsewhere?

What resolution are you playing at?

 

[rexehuk]

Folks might find these interesting. Lots don't consider inflation as well.

 

[Zarax]

Folks might find these interesting. Lots don't consider inflation as well.

That's an improper use of inflation though. Inflation is an average, what should be taken into amount is silicon and component price variations.

Key questions:

Has the price per mm2 increased?
Have yelds increased or decreased?
Is the chip bigger or smaller?
What about memories, what is the price per GB?

 

[rexehuk]

That's an improper use of inflation though. Inflation is an average, what should be taken into amount is silicon and component price variations.

Key questions:

Has the price per mm2 increased?
Have yelds increased or decreased?
Is the chip bigger or smaller?
What about memories, what is the price per GB?

And if you calculate those things... You'll see they don't add up to anywhere near the increase you're seeing.

You can tell yourself they have, to justify the prices you see.

People said shipping had gone up causing it all... Smoke screen. It's all back to normal levels now, yet your prices are fixed. Weird.

 

[ninjag]

What resolution are you playing at?

1440p @ super widescreen, everything at High/Max including Ray Tracing.

 

[Zarax]

1440p @ super widescreen, everything at High/Max including Ray Tracing.

It might be a factor, at 1440p CP should use over 8GB...

 

[Zarax]

And if you calculate those things... You'll see they don't add up to anywhere near the increase you're seeing.

You can tell yourself they have, to justify the prices you see.

People said shipping had gone up causing it all... Smoke screen. It's all back to normal levels now, yet your prices are fixed. Weird.

I'm actually agreeing with you, inflation in itself is not an excuse.

 

[MurphyBrix]

I hover around these forums from time to time seeing what's the latest goings on after being a PC gamer/lover that has completely dropped out of it. I personally bought a ps5 a while back after my 980ti packed in and due to the prices didn't bother replacing. I have the money to upgrade but graphic card increases seemed mental and personally not for me.

I'd be very surprised if the answer for the increases is anything but greed and the fact prices are being put up to see how far they can push them up until people stop buying. If people keep paying the prices they keep sticking them up and testing the water.

It'll be happening with a lot of items these days although to me graphics cards seem an extreme case.

 

[rexehuk]

I hover around these forums from time to time seeing what's the latest goings on after being a PC gamer/lover that has completely dropped out of it. I personally bought a ps5 a while back after my 980ti packed in and due to the prices didn't bother replacing. I have the money to upgrade but graphic card increases seemed mental and personally not for me.

I'd be very surprised if the answer for the increases is anything but greed and the fact prices are being put up to see how far they can push them up until people stop buying. If people keep paying the prices they keep sticking them up and testing the water.

It'll be happening with a lot of items these days although to me graphics cards seem an extreme case.

I wouldn't feel bad, the prices are mental and a "few" in the big picture are happy to pay the prices.

The masses are NOT. Don't fall into the trap of thinking it's normalised and you're poor - simply not true.

 

[rexehuk]

I'm actually agreeing with you, inflation in itself is not an excuse.

I'm open to someone extending those graphs, I simply don't have the insight so I want someone like Moores or someone out to potentially tack on "chip" cost along with it so we can build a full picture.

Obviously, the pricing is all extremely secretive and they just use that to their advantage.

 

[ninjag]

Interesting video I came across:

 

[Murphy]

I'm open to someone extending those graphs, I simply don't have the insight so I want someone like Moores or someone out to potentially tack on "chip" cost along with it so we can build a full picture.

Obviously, the pricing is all extremely secretive and they just use that to their advantage.

You'll never get exact pricing but i took a stab at the cost of a 4090 die a while back...

Just listened to Cutress' latest video where he estimated the cost of a Ryzen 9 7950X so i thought I'd do the same for the AD102 (used in the 4090) and my back of the fag packet maths came up with $288.

If anyone has more accurate numbers they're welcome to give it a go themselves (web archive link to calculator) as i couldn't find exact dimensions for AD102 so assumed it was 24.5mm x 24.5mm (600mm sq) and used the $17k per wafer costs Ian cited in the video. I also don't know what the costs are for GDDR6X (or even the number / sizes they're using).

Like i said it's back of a fag packet maths but i thought it an interesting exercise to estimate the actual cost of a 4090.

Call it $300 for the die, maybe add around £200 for the memory, another £200 for the SMD's and PCB, maybe £100 for the cooler and sundries, all in you're probably looking at around $800 for the total BoM. Like i said at the time I'd love for others to give their ballpark figures as mine could be way off for all i know.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Just look at the 3080 last gen and they charged 650. They probably kicked themselves for not charging more but still turned a profit on it. That will give you some idea of the cost, OK the 40 series is apparently more expensive this time but we know the ball park for them to break even is way lower than they are letting on.

 

[TNA]

You'll never get exact pricing but i took a stab at the cost of a 4090 die a while back...

Call it $300 for the die, maybe add around £200 for the memory, another £200 for the SMD's and PCB, maybe £100 for the cooler and sundries, all in you're probably looking at around $800 for the total BoM. Like i said at the time I'd love for others to give their ballpark figures as mine could be way off for all i know.

R&D in that figure too?

 

[Murphy]

R&D in that figure too?

Assembly cost isn't even in that figure because it's an estimate of the BoM. Plus R&D is impossible to quantify into a single product because you could've spent nothing or trillions to get to that one model over another.

R&D is just the cost of doing business in some sectors, a bit like have a legal department, public relations, marketing, etc, etc.