When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

[Twinz]

I think it's easy to get into the weeds with the internal workings of these companies.

It all boils down to the products they offer us and the money they want us to exchange for those products.

How does it perform?

What does it cost?

Their job is to offer products we want at prices we will pay.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nvidia has constantly higher Gross GAAP margins than Apple and many Big Oil and Big Pharma companies. People need to stop giving two ***** about their costs.

I think it's easy to get into the weeds with the internal workings of these companies.

It all boils down to the products they offer us and the money they want us to exchange for those products.

How does it perform?

What does it cost?

Their job is to offer products we want at prices we will pay.

Big Oil made losses at the start of the Pandemic because Oil prices went negative so should we give a toss when the same companies now jack up prices? Nope. Does anyone give a damn about the margins of a shop and it's suppliers when you go and do your weekly shop? Nope. Would you think of OcUK margins if you get a product half the price of other competitors? I doubt it. Customers have to think about their own margins and pockets instead of thinking about these foreign owned tech companies, who get propped up by their own taxpayers.

 

[DarrenM343]

Cash oil didn't go negative. Can look at the history of Brent Crude to see that. But yes low prices impacted oil companies at the time as breakeven was something like $30 per barrel. Brent Crude went to a low as $16 but didnt stay there long.
Oil went negative on the futures markets because demand had just evaporated very quickly and traders & others were then stuck holding the futures contracts. As they were future contracts, when the contract expires delivery has to be taken of the underlying asset or commodity in this case. So,prices went negative as it meant those holding the contracts had to pay someone to take these contracts off their hands otherwise they'd have had to take delivery of the oil. Speculators especially wouldn't want 5000 barrels of oil being delivered to their home.

Agrreed,customers shouldn't give a damn about their costs, just whether you want the product, can justify it etc, or not.

NVidia are in such a position to be able to control the market. Tesla was the same a while ago. We'd all do the same as Nvidia if we ran such a business too. They know their market well

We can only speculate on why NV seems to have steered customers towards the 4090 this gen as the others are naf for the price

 

[Troezar]

Cash oil didn't go negative. Can look at the history of Brent Crude to see that. But yes low prices impacted oil companies at the time as breakeven was something like $30 per barrel.
Oil went negative on the futures markets because demand had just evaporated very quickly and traders & others were then stuck holding the futures contracts. As they were future contracts, when the contract expires delivery has to be taken of the underlying asset or commodity in this case. So,prices went negative as it meant those holding the contracts had to pay someone to take these contracts off their hands otherwise they'd have had to take delivery of the oil. Speculators especially wouldn't want 5000 barrels of oil being delivered to their home.

Agrreed,customers shouldn't give a damn about their costs, just whether you want the product, can justify it etc, or not.

NVidia are in such a position to be able to control the market. Tesla was the same a while ago. We'd all do the same as Nvidia if we ran such a business too. They know their market well

We can only speculate on why NV seems to have steered customers towards the 4090 this gen as the others are naf for the price

Are yields not as good as expected so they want to sell fewer cards at higher profits? Did they anticipate lower demand and don't want to get stuck with a lot of stock again or is there just so much of the previous gen they have to shift them and are willing to sacrifice some of this gen to clear out?

 

[rare]

Nvidia has constantly higher Gross GAAP margins than Apple and many Big Oil and Big Pharma companies. People need to stop giving two ***** about their costs.

I don’t care about their costs, I’m just pointing out things have got more expensive and you can’t ignore that as a contributor. Sometimes it isn’t all black or white, though clearly Nvidia have prioritised their massive margins at the expense of the consumer, but they can because they are essentially unchallenged.

 

[DarrenM343]

Are yields not as good as expected so they want to sell fewer cards at higher profits? Did they anticipate lower demand and don't want to get stuck with a lot of stock again or is there just so much of the previous gen they have to shift them and are willing to sacrifice some of this gen to clear out?

Could be related to some or all of those points. My guess is around potentially predicted lower demand given the economic conditions and just maybe they weren't sure of any ongoing supply issues so goal to to make more profit selling less this generation knowing the real hardcore gamers will find a way to buy the top end GPU especially.

I've made the decision not to buy anything this generation but not going to moan about NV either. IMO it's up to them what they charge.

 

[nomadd]

..though clearly Nvidia have prioritised their massive margins at the expense of the consumer, but they can because they are essentially unchallenged.

I initially read that as "unhinged".

Mind you, going by Nvidia's terrible sales recently, maybe that is the case.

 

[TNA]

Nvidia has constantly higher Gross GAAP margins than Apple and many Big Oil and Big Pharma companies. People need to stop giving two ***** about their costs.

Big Oil made losses at the start of the Pandemic because Oil prices went negative so should we give a toss when the same companies now jack up prices? Nope. Does anyone give a damn about the margins of a shop and it's suppliers when you go and do your weekly shop? Nope. Would you think of OcUK margins if you get a product half the price of other competitors? I doubt it. Customers have to think about their own margins and pockets instead of thinking about these foreign owned tech companies, who get propped up by their own taxpayers.

I don't give two ***** about their costs or AMD's. They price it too high, I simply skip a gen and go with whoever does better next time.

Sure having the best is nice. But what exactly am I missing out on in my Steam library by only having a 3080 Ti? Cyberpunk PT? I think I will be fine

They could have had my money had they gone £749 on the 4080. But they chose not to. Money stays in my wallet

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I don’t care about their costs, I’m just pointing out things have got more expensive and you can’t ignore that as a contributor. Sometimes it isn’t all black or white, though clearly Nvidia have prioritised their massive margins at the expense of the consumer, but they can because they are essentially unchallenged.

Well if you don't care about there costs,going on "but! but! their costs are higher! So it justifies their price increases".As a buyer this is irrelevant to my purchasing decisions.They are not some struggling business.

What I see is they can make higher Gross Margins than many companies such as Apple,Big Oil,Big Pharma who constantly get called out for this and those companies also invest billions too. Nobody cares. You can see that in the realworld.

The US taxpayer already helps Nvidia out,like AMD and Intel. Nvidia paid zero Federal taxes in 2018:

These 91 companies paid no federal taxes in 2018

A new report from think tank says some of the biggest companies in the country had effective tax rates of 0% or less in 2018.

www.cnbc.com

AMD gets supercomputer contracts from the US government:

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2022-05-30-world-s-first-exascale-supercomputer-powered-amd-epyc-processors-and-amd

The CHIPS Act helps all of them with billions of USD of US taxpayer funds:

https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/industries/public-sector/govt-affairs/public-sector-pdf-government-affairs-rfi-2589388.pdf

The CHIPS Act: Rebuilding America's technological infrastructure

The $280 billion bipartisan legislation aims to rebuild our nation's chip-making capability, to protect against supply chain disruptions caused by natural disasters or geopolitics.

www.cbsnews.com

So let the US taxpayer care about "their problems" as I don't care. AMD years ago was on the brink of bankruptcy - were people saying they "needed" to increase prices XYZ? Or Intel is struggling now to compete with AMD and their margins have gone down massively? Are people saying they "need" to increase prices XYZ?

The only people who keep saying they are justified in doing so are PCMR uberfans. PCMR never used to be this way decades ago. Had some AMD guys trying it on with the Zen3 and Zen4 price hikes. This is Apple level nonsense. Apple uberfans kept making XYZ excuses why the products were getting more expensive,had more stingy specifications,etc.

But even Apple uberfans have had enough:

Apple sales in biggest fall since 2019

The decline came as people cut back in the face of higher living costs, said Apple's boss.

www.bbc.co.uk

So if the Apple fanbase have had enough,what is PCMR then? Worse than Apple uberfans?

I don't give two ***** about their costs or AMD's. They price it too high, I simply skip a gen and go with whoever does better next time.

Sure having the best is nice. But what exactly am I missing out on in my Steam library by only having a 3080 Ti? Cyberpunk PT? I think I will be fine

They could have had my money had they gone £749 on the 4080. But they chose not to. Money stays in my wallet

Just see my reply above. The US taxpayer throwns tons of money at these companies like charities,so why should us here in the UK need to act like they are.

I might even understand if they were struggling like some industries are - but if Nvidia are "struggling" then probably 90% of businesses in the world are in deep trouble.

Cash oil didn't go negative. Can look at the history of Brent Crude to see that. But yes low prices impacted oil companies at the time as breakeven was something like $30 per barrel. Brent Crude went to a low as $16 but didnt stay there long.
Oil went negative on the futures markets because demand had just evaporated very quickly and traders & others were then stuck holding the futures contracts. As they were future contracts, when the contract expires delivery has to be taken of the underlying asset or commodity in this case. So,prices went negative as it meant those holding the contracts had to pay someone to take these contracts off their hands otherwise they'd have had to take delivery of the oil. Speculators especially wouldn't want 5000 barrels of oil being delivered to their home.

Agrreed,customers shouldn't give a damn about their costs, just whether you want the product, can justify it etc, or not.

NVidia are in such a position to be able to control the market. Tesla was the same a while ago. We'd all do the same as Nvidia if we ran such a business too. They know their market well

We can only speculate on why NV seems to have steered customers towards the 4090 this gen as the others are naf for the price

Considering that that extraction costs can vary,they were selling oil below the cost price,plus Big Oil also has other costs too the factor in.
There are also so many instances when Big Oil have made bad bets on new oil/gas fields and lost money too. Even those traders and their associated companies - were people defending their years of profiteering just because they made a big loss? Nope.

The same goes with Big Pharma - many drugs never passed the final hurdles so all that R and D money was a loss. This is why they bet most of their longterm profits on a few drugs.

But are we seeing anyone defend these industries. Nope. Plenty of British companies go bankrupt as people would rather use foreign alternatives even in the UK. Do people start going on "pay more for British so we can protect British jobs?" Nope,even if would help protect our own industries and jobs.

So if we in the UK,and indeed most countries in the world,don't even care that much about protecting local companies,then why should we care about foreign ones like Nvidia,AMD,etc?

 

[gpuerrilla]

Well if you don't care about there costs,going on "but! but! their costs are higher! So it justifies their price increases".As a buyer this is irrelevant to my purchasing decisions. What I see is they can make higher Gross Margins than many companies such as Apple,Big Oil,Big Pharma who constantly get called out for this and those companies also invest billions too. Nobody cares. You can see that in the realworld.

Yep plenty of other industries this applies to, the people have the information, its just they don't want to digest it (or don't care).

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yep plenty of other industries this applies to, the people have the information, its just they don't want to digest it (or don't care).

There are a lot of local UK businesses who have much lower margins,and were much worse affected by the last few years than Big Tech,who have had tons of government help globally. Yet these businesses have cut their own margins and tried to meet halfway with their consumers. Yet nobody is defending them increasing prices(even if they deserve much more sympathy). Big Tech,instead, are trying their best to jack up margins during a period of global economic problems and companies like Nvidia are massively increasing pricing.

They,like many Big Tech companies,got greedy(as did their investors) on the Pandemic,which was an exceptional event. Now,they implied that "Pandemic time" massive profiteering would last for years which again shows how companies and the stock market are in a fantasy land. See how many are mass firing employees now,to maintain those "Pandemic time" financials instead of entering reality.

The same fantasy land which lead to all the stuff which lead to the Subprime. Overspeculation,excessive borrowing,etc. This is not helped by the fact governments have printed way too much money,and most of that ended up with these companies borrowing too much due to cheap credit flooding the system. It lead to people borrowing too much for things like housing,and consumer purchases. It seems in the west a significant amount of consumer purchasing has been aided by borrowing on Credit Cards and easy payment schemes:

https://archive.is/kgRav

https://archive.is/bBPZe

This has enabled companies to jack up prices beyond what a lot of people would normally have afforded if they had to have the money in hand.Big Tech has dined too much on the altar of cheap credit.

 

[Troezar]

Big Tech has dined too much on the Altar of cheap credit.

Been saying this for years, a lot of the boom in the West's economies was nothing but debt. Increased property prices was just people bidding one another up with cheap credit. Rising standard of living was just people buying stuff with loans and credit cards, eventually it's got to be paid back. It's not just the lower earners either, lots of six figures households are mired in debt. One big bubble waiting to pop and along came CV19 and put a spanner in the works. Something will eventually have to give.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Been saying this for years, a lot of the boom in the West's economies was nothing but debt. Increased property prices was just people bidding one another up with cheap credit. Rising standard of living was just people buying stuff with loans and credit cards, eventually it's got to be paid back. It's not just the lower earners either, lots of six figures households are mired in debt. One big bubble waiting to pop and along came CV19 and put a spanner in the works. Something will eventually have to give.

The guy over on Tech YES City talks about this too. In the UK,since the Subprime crash(2007~2009) pay has barely increased with inflation,whereas pay in the previous two decades had gone up at a higher rate.

In the US it is terrible:

Most Americans Don’t Have Enough Emergency Savings, Despite The Strong Job Market | Bankrate

If unemployment increases, many Americans — especially those with little or no savings — could face financial hardship.

www.bankrate.com

Do you have enough money saved to weather an unexpected job loss? If you are an adult in the U.S., your answer is likely no.


More than two-thirds of Americans — 68 percent — say they’re worried they wouldn’t be able to cover their living expenses for just one month if they lost their primary source of income tomorrow, according to a recent Bankrate survey.


The finding comes when the job market is still punching above its weight. Employers added 311,000 jobs to the U.S. economy in February, and the unemployment rate ticked up slightly to 3.6 percent from 3.4 percent — still an exceptionally low level. Inflation has been slowly coming down in recent months, too.

It's most likely we will start to see some Quantitative Tightening too. This is why all these companies are flocking to AI,as they see it as one of the areas they hope to see governments throw money at. Problem is everyone is doing it.

Greedy companies like Nvidia had a good thing with gamers,who were willing to put up with above price increases,or useless performance jumps each generation. Almost a captive market. Now they seem to want to abandon all the "loyal" PCMR. No wonder AMD is making almost as much revenue from consoles as Nvidia does with PC dGPUs. Yes,we can all argue it's lower margin,but the console market is technically still smaller than the total number of PC users.

If Nvidia,etc bothered to price things better they might even make more money(even if it was lower margin). But apparently the speculation over margins is more important.Even AMD is affected hence "we are not a budget brand" statement. This is why now we are all shocked "lower margin" Chinese companies are everywhere and still making decent enough profits.

I expect @KompuKare might have something to add to this!

 

[Jono8]

Been saying this for years, a lot of the boom in the West's economies was nothing but debt. Increased property prices was just people bidding one another up with cheap credit. Rising standard of living was just people buying stuff with loans and credit cards, eventually it's got to be paid back. It's not just the lower earners either, lots of six figures households are mired in debt. One big bubble waiting to pop and along came CV19 and put a spanner in the works. Something will eventually have to give.

I think it is all going to come crashing down massively soon.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Going back to the topic hardware, the lovely visuals that all the influencers and tech sites are now using shows that dropping a sku in performance and at the same time upping a sku in price forms a nice wedge of imbalance glaring out. Sometimes the indefensible has to be accepted.

 

[Zarax]

Aaand look who's getting back: https://videocardz.com/press-releas...d-luma-gpu-series-first-fanless-a310-launched
It's pretty much as an AIB so far but nothing says they aren't testing the waters for more.
For those born in the 1990s or later, Matrox was one of the first gaming video cards producers, they made pretty good cards back then and they pionereed bump mapping and a few other techs.

 

[Minusorange]

The guy over on Tech YES City talks about this too. In the UK,since the Subprime crash(2007~2009) pay has barely increased with inflation,whereas pay in the previous two decades had gone up at a higher rate.

In the US it is terrible:

Most Americans Don’t Have Enough Emergency Savings, Despite The Strong Job Market | Bankrate

If unemployment increases, many Americans — especially those with little or no savings — could face financial hardship.

www.bankrate.com

I don't understand this, the US all got covid bailouts which most people ended up putting into the stock market, stocks have continued to rise so they can't have been taking out any of that money so where has it gone if nobody has any emergency funds (I would class stock assets as emergency funds as it's quite easy to cash out when needed) or is stock liquidity not counted ?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I don't understand this, the US all got covid bailouts which most people ended up putting into the stock market, stocks have continued to rise so they can't have been taking out any of that money so where has it gone if nobody has any emergency funds (I would class stock assets as emergency funds as it's quite easy to cash out when needed) or is stock liquidity not counted ?

Because the money going to the average person probably wasn't being spent on stocks and shares,maybe just the richer people who did that.

The rest probably paid off debts,or the money meant they could actually live properly for a brief period. Some might have bought something like a new phone,new consoles,or some new furnishings or something like that.

In recent months some of these extra benefits have been cut back and its lead to problems again:

Low-income Americans face a ‘hunger cliff’ as Snap benefits are cut

The US food assistance program offered expanded benefits during the Covid emergency, but they ended last month

www.theguardian.com

 

[DeathStorm]

I don't understand this, the US all got covid bailouts which most people ended up putting into the stock market

Most people? I don't think that's really representative of most people who are just going from paycheck to paycheck at all and as much as I dislike Nvidia it is also worth remembering they're not even remotely essential, no one's going to die just because they decide to gouge the market.

 

[Troezar]

Because the money going to the average person probably wasn't being spent on stocks and shares,maybe just the richer people who did that.

The rest probably paid off debts,or the money meant they could actually live properly for a brief period. Some might have bought something like a new phone,new consoles,or some new furnishings or something like that.

In recent months some of these extra benefits have been cut back and its lead to problems again:

Low-income Americans face a ‘hunger cliff’ as Snap benefits are cut

The US food assistance program offered expanded benefits during the Covid emergency, but they ended last month

www.theguardian.com

It seems a large number were buying GPU's